trail closures

dirtygoat · Apr 24, 2011

Binder said:
Have you read the bill? You get a free pass with 25 hours logged at work parties..Bad part is the system doesn't start until end of July so current work parties don't count.

I'm one of those that can't read but still stares at it...:redneck:

25 hours huh??? I wonder if we can double dip??? I put in enough hours to get a free pass for everything I own...:awesomework:

Binder · Apr 24, 2011

dirtygoat said:
25 hours huh??? I wonder if we can double dip??? I put in enough hours to get a free pass for everything I own...:awesomework:

I'm with you there!

zukkev · Apr 24, 2011

dirtygoat said:
I'm one of those that can't read but still stares at it...:redneck:

25 hours huh??? I wonder if we can double dip??? I put in enough hours to get a free pass for everything I own...:awesomework:

Binder said:
I'm with you there!

x3!!!!:redneck:

stealthrunner1 · Apr 24, 2011

I think trail closures are already starting!!!! First picture....hey here's a place we can take our street legal 4x4.....not so fast what the hell is this on the same sign posts!!!!!!!:eeek:

And BAM the third picture pisses me OFF!!!!!

Bet ya the bikers and the atv riders love this!!!!!!don't you love being segregated fellow wheelers!!!!!!!!!!!

stealthrunner1 · Apr 24, 2011

Clark said:
How about none of those?

Why don't we get more areas open and the overall use will be dispersed over more land, and not concentrated in a few select areas, same result, different approach.

I'm with clark NONE OF THE ABOVE!!!!!!

Gibby1 · Apr 24, 2011

WAYCRAZY said:
Well Gibby you have been granted your wish to pay to wheel at Elbe .....
As of July 1st 2011 you have to buy a $30 discover pass for your tow rig. And if your wheeling rig of choice is plated instead of ORV tagged you get to spend a additional $30 for a pass for it to.

No where did I ever say that I wish to spend money to wheel at Elbe. What I did say is that during a time of budget crisis, recreation is one of the areas that should be cut from the budget. ALL recreation. It's not an essential service and shouldn't be provided by our government.

On a second note, if anyone cannot pay $30 or $60 for passes to help keep the areas open, then they really should make some better financial choices and NOT go wheeling until they can afford it.

Personally, I already pay to wheel at Elbe. Last year alone I spent over $3000 to wheel JUST at Elbe and that doesn't include a single day of 4 wheeling expenses. I also put in more hours in work up there last year than I did wheeling. I plan to spend another $1000 or more this year and probably another $1000 to $2000 if we don't get the grant for the mini-excavator.

So I guess us

richie rich popped collared matching jacket douche bags that think they OWN the world...

guys will continue to suck it up.

Sorry, but this comment by Gabe really pisses me off. 98% of you don't know the story behind it... Ain'tstuckjustrestin had it dead on right.

whatthe? · Apr 24, 2011

stealthrunner said:
I think trail closures are already starting!!!! First picture....hey here's a place we can take our street legal 4x4.....not so fast what the hell is this on the same sign posts!!!!!!!:eeek:

And BAM the third picture pisses me OFF!!!!!

Bet ya the bikers and the atv riders love this!!!!!!don't you love being segregated fellow wheelers!!!!!!!!!!!

This is were a road/trails system is headed. Closure here, closure there. We'll blame erosion here, poaching there. It's easy to manage an area if its closed. We'll get a wheeler group to support seasonal closures, an environmental group to threaten to sue. Look a few years to the future and all we have is huge tracks of land and no people in them, forest management made simple, all on the publics dime.

Binder · Apr 24, 2011

whatthe? said:
This is were a road/trails system is headed. Closure here, closure there. We'll blame erosion here, poaching there. It's easy to manage an area if its closed. We'll get a wheeler group to support seasonal closures, an environmental group to threaten to sue. Look a few years to the future and all we have is huge tracks of land and no people in them, forest management made simple, all on the publics dime.

FWIW the environmental groups have threatened to suit Walker just in the last few weeks.

WAYCRAZY · Apr 24, 2011

Sorry Gibby I threw your name in there because of this .I didn't think you would take offense. Thank you for your time,money and hard work to make the trails we all enjoy better.

Gibby said:
It's going to cost me around $500/day to go to Disneyland, so it I had to pay $100/day to go to Elbe and it had nice services, trails that I like etc, I'd do it in a heart beat.

Having free, or almost free use of the ORV parks and other legal 4x4 areas is fundamentally wrong. We are incorrectly believing that we are ENTITLED to this. We are not.

nate8887 · Apr 24, 2011

Spanaway Mudder said:
Great..So now the trails are going to be for richie rich popped collared matching jacket douche bags that think they OWN the world...:rb:

Popped collars were out years ago. We wear button up soldier shirts and patent leather shoes with a nice pair of express or super rifle jeans now. get with the times man. :fawkdancesmiley: are you really whining over 30 dollars a YEAR? $30/12=$2.50 a month thats less than I spend on dip and I like wheeling more than dip.

nate8887 · Apr 24, 2011

Binder said:
FWIW the environmental groups have threatened to suit Walker just in the last few weeks.

D you know the names of these groups or is it just WTA? I find it interesting that the USFS just hired a Part time advisor/worker that was has deep ties with the WTA his first name is gary. I wonder what is coming our way on the N.F.S. Side of the house?

Travis1 · Apr 24, 2011

dirtygoat said:
I'm one of those that can't read but still stares at it...:redneck:

25 hours huh??? I wonder if we can double dip??? I put in enough hours to get a free pass for everything I own...:awesomework:

24 hours, but I'm wondering if I can do this to get multiple passes. We would need 4. Two Jeeps, tow rig, and the Durango.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2011-12/Pdf/Bills/Senate Passed Legislature/5622-S2.PL.pdf

(8) A complimentary discover pass must be provided to a volunteer
32 who performed twenty-four hours of service on agency-sanctioned
33 volunteer projects in a year. The agency must provide vouchers to
34 volunteers identifying the number of volunteer hours they have provided
35 for each project. The vouchers may be brought to an agency to be
36 redeemed for a discover pass.

Pulling 96 hours of sanctioned volunteer hours isn't that hard. I could pull that in a month if I wanted to for the first year. And by the time the following year comes around it would be a non-issue.

Jacob · Apr 24, 2011

Binder said:
Have you read the bill? You get a free pass with 25 hours logged at work parties..Bad part is the system doesn't start until end of July so current work parties don't count.

I am for this option, but I disagree with the amount of hours needed to earn a free pass.

Minimum wage in Washington is $8.67.

25hrs x $8.67 = $216.75

That math does not add up.

This math does-

4hrs x $8.67 = $34.68

With this logic, a full 8 hour work party day should earn you a free pass for your trail rig AND tow rig.

Who do we talk to about this? I am ready to raise the BS flag on 25hrs for a free pass.

I am all about work parties and putting in more than 8 hours, but they need to be realistic with the hours. A lot of us would get our "free" pass just in time for it to expire if 25hrs are required. And who tracks the time?

With this in mind, if we work even more hours I wonder if we could get a program set up where the money earned from the extra hours goes into a budget set aside FOR THE WHEELING AREA THAT THE WORK WAS PERFORMED?

Example. 20 people put in an 8 hour work party day. That is a total of 160 hours worked. 160 x $8.67 = $1387.20.

With this plan, not only would we be actively restoring impacted areas but we would also earn a small budget for the area for supplies and upkeep.

What say you all?

Gibby1 · Apr 24, 2011

no offense taken, just clearing details.:beer:

WAYCRAZY said:
Sorry Gibby I threw your name in there because of this .I didn't think you would take offense. Thank you for your time,money and hard work to make the trails we all enjoy better.

n

Travis1 · Apr 24, 2011

Jacob said:
I am for this option, but I disagree with the amount of hours needed to earn a free pass.

Minimum wage in Washington is $8.67.

25hrs x $8.67 = $216.75

That math does not add up.

This math does-

4hrs x $8.67 = $34.68

With this logic, a full 8 hour work party day should earn you a free pass for your trail rig AND tow rig.

Who do we talk to about this? I am ready to raise the BS flag on 25hrs for a free pass.

I am all about work parties and putting in more than 8 hours, but they need to be realistic with the hours. A lot of us would get our "free" pass just in time for it to expire if 25hrs are required. And who tracks the time?

With this in mind, if we work even more hours I wonder if we could get a program set up where the money earned from the extra hours goes into a budget set aside FOR THE WHEELING AREA THAT THE WORK WAS PERFORMED?

Example. 20 people put in an 8 hour work party day. That is a total of 160 hours worked. 160 x $8.67 = $1387.20.

With this plan, not only would we be actively restoring impacted areas but we would also earn a small budget for the area for supplies and upkeep.

What say you all?

First, it's too late, the discovery pass is past the legislature. It's 24 hours.

It's not about making it a fair amount based on minimum wage. They need the money for LEO, etc. more than they need the volunteer hours.

24 hours really isn't that many to those already invested in the trail system, which they would be working regardless of the offer to a free pass anyway.

24 hours might be a lot to people that don't want to pay $30 per vehicle and also don't want to put any real effort in to supporting the areas they use.

Now, if you did volunteer a lot, you'de know there are sign in sheets already in place and have been for years, if not decades. Name, address, hours worked, all get logged. Those logged hours also go toward helping to get grants. (this reminds me I'm behind on my paperwork)

What money is getting "earned" for working more hours besides possible grants? 24 volunteer hours = FREE pass. It's costing the gov't money to give you that pass if you work for it.

I think you'll find those that are heavily involved, not supporting you on this one. Just be glad it wasn't 40 hours, you can thank orgs like WTA for that.

CHOP SHOP · Apr 24, 2011

It's going to cost me around $500/day to go to Disneyland, so it I had to pay $100/day to go to Elbe and it had nice services, trails that I like etc, I'd do it in a heart beat.

Having free, or almost free use of the ORV parks and other legal 4x4 areas is fundamentally wrong. We are incorrectly believing that we are ENTITLED to this. We are not.

I like the fact that I can go to the woods to avoid the paying type of disneyland people that dont like the "hillbilly experience"

If you need a shitter and fancy campground to go wheeling, then by all means please stop wheeling and pursue a disneyland adventure.

Wheeling used to be rugged, now anybody with sum coin can be "rugged" too.

CHOP SHOP · Apr 24, 2011

Travis said:
Pulling 96 hours of sanctioned volunteer hours isn't that hard. I could pull that in a month if I wanted to for the first year. And by the time the following year comes around it would be a non-issue.

Its easy. Just steal. They cheat, lie and steal from us.

Do it to them.

I just go to work parties and sign the sheet and then go wheeling. Im not working, Im wheeling. Its a fair shake to me. They are dishonest and so am I. Steal from me, I will lie to you.

(and PS, I dont lose sleep over it)

Just think of it a a reciprocating scumbag pass. I let them be scumbags in office, they let me be a scumbag in the woods.

nate8887 · Apr 24, 2011

CHOP SHOP said:
I like the fact that I can go to the woods to avoid the paying type of disneyland people that dont like the "hillbilly experience"

If you need a shitter and fancy campground to go wheeling, then by all means please stop wheeling and pursue a disneyland adventure.

Wheeling used to be rugged, now anybody with sum coin can be "rugged" too.

Is there just a mentality against people that have some coin??? I have been in the wheeling world since 93 and have always wheeled at the same places year after year. Never used a tent until I was out from under my parents wing. So does that make me unrugged or the type of guy that shouldn't be wheeling? I don't understand where this mentality of people having to much coin comes from those are the guys you want on your team they got the $$$ for lawyers and lobbying if it comes down to it.

Gibby1 · Apr 24, 2011

CHOP SHOP said:
I like the fact that I can go to the woods to avoid the paying type of disneyland people that dont like the "hillbilly experience"

If you need a shitter and fancy campground to go wheeling, then by all means please stop wheeling and pursue a disneyland adventure.

Wheeling used to be rugged, now anybody with sum coin can be "rugged" too.

You just want those with some coin to pay so that you can play. Your core values are so screwed up Brad.

Binder · Apr 24, 2011

nate8887 said:
D you know the names of these groups or is it just WTA? I find it interesting that the USFS just hired a Part time advisor/worker that was has deep ties with the WTA his first name is gary. I wonder what is coming our way on the N.F.S. Side of the house?

I was told it was Bill Lider. A correction though. I wasn't told he threatened to file suit but I was told "he's up to his tricks again" which typically involves threats of suits.