-
Help Support Hardline Crawlers :
Diary
- Thread starter nowires
- Start date
5.15.2012
So today I net with Jim ( the engineer) from Olympia and worked on layout of G7. this is putting a ribbon down the center line and then marking and flagging the radious of the corners. Then pin flagging the trail every 10 feet. center line, and both left and right clearing limmits
I also had a talk agian about the turning radious that he is using for trails he is using a 30ft radious and for G& he was using a 50ft. I pleated with him for sharper turns and talked about examples of rigs and there turning radious to convince him that we really need sharper turns
On G7 his reasing for the 50 ft was so that a dump truck could drive down the trail and turn around at the end of G8 he had drawlings of a 30 to 40 ft cleared area for the turn around. I think that I convinced him that time managment wise that this was stupid idea.
My thoughs, At the end of the day I sat down with him and had a (talk) with him. I am basically spelling it out to him that we are here to help him succeed. we are here to make sure that things go right in all ways. please use the asets that you have. I also told him that his job is grant based and that with no grants, no job............
Ok so where are we at and what is the next step. we need to have a product to be able to show incompadence in DNR recreation. I am documenting everything going on and how he is handling the process. I am trying to work with him
So today I net with Jim ( the engineer) from Olympia and worked on layout of G7. this is putting a ribbon down the center line and then marking and flagging the radious of the corners. Then pin flagging the trail every 10 feet. center line, and both left and right clearing limmits
I also had a talk agian about the turning radious that he is using for trails he is using a 30ft radious and for G& he was using a 50ft. I pleated with him for sharper turns and talked about examples of rigs and there turning radious to convince him that we really need sharper turns
On G7 his reasing for the 50 ft was so that a dump truck could drive down the trail and turn around at the end of G8 he had drawlings of a 30 to 40 ft cleared area for the turn around. I think that I convinced him that time managment wise that this was stupid idea.
My thoughs, At the end of the day I sat down with him and had a (talk) with him. I am basically spelling it out to him that we are here to help him succeed. we are here to make sure that things go right in all ways. please use the asets that you have. I also told him that his job is grant based and that with no grants, no job............
Ok so where are we at and what is the next step. we need to have a product to be able to show incompadence in DNR recreation. I am documenting everything going on and how he is handling the process. I am trying to work with him
I am still fighting for sharper corners at this time ho is designing the trails using 30 and 50 ft radious corners
I have explained to him that my ford outside track was a 28ft radious. I have also explained to him that to keep speeds down you make the trails turns tighter.
Aoso Steve Davies and ted Jacson are prosuing the who legality of having the trails engineered and if there is anything that actually says that this needs to be done. I have reaserched this threw state legal and there is no wac or RCW that states this. They want to pull the trigger and I am waiting for conformation of incompatence on the engineers side to show that he doesn't know what he is doing as far as trails and that they are NOY following the SEPA directive of the trails will be designed by using the forest service specs
At this time nothing that he is doing is following the trail layout using forest service hand book for trail building
I have explained to him that my ford outside track was a 28ft radious. I have also explained to him that to keep speeds down you make the trails turns tighter.
Aoso Steve Davies and ted Jacson are prosuing the who legality of having the trails engineered and if there is anything that actually says that this needs to be done. I have reaserched this threw state legal and there is no wac or RCW that states this. They want to pull the trigger and I am waiting for conformation of incompatence on the engineers side to show that he doesn't know what he is doing as far as trails and that they are NOY following the SEPA directive of the trails will be designed by using the forest service specs
At this time nothing that he is doing is following the trail layout using forest service hand book for trail building
5/18/2012
Wow more smoke and we will see what comes of this. Talked to Mark and he said that the first trail will be designed to 30% by june 1st. He also mentioned that this will have obsticale and such with that. At this point I got an E mail today that said that June 4th there will be a group of people gre together to view the plans. At that point he can't give an daye for 100% design. It will be on the feedback of the users. No feed back and just let them build what they have will speed up this first trail.
Wow more smoke and we will see what comes of this. Talked to Mark and he said that the first trail will be designed to 30% by june 1st. He also mentioned that this will have obsticale and such with that. At this point I got an E mail today that said that June 4th there will be a group of people gre together to view the plans. At that point he can't give an daye for 100% design. It will be on the feedback of the users. No feed back and just let them build what they have will speed up this first trail.
5/21/2012
Dirt started to move in the single track area today. they got the ataging area cleared for the rock and also a little trail work. I am going to see if I can sneek up there and get some pics of what is going on
Dirt started to move in the single track area today. they got the ataging area cleared for the rock and also a little trail work. I am going to see if I can sneek up there and get some pics of what is going on
6/2/2012
Here we go another fun filled month. So fart this month we have a meeting set up with Dubche to discuss the removal of county afferrs in DNR trails and the beginning of trail building in area 6 and the reliese of the forst 30% of 4x4 trail. Alll 1700 ft.
Sky valley on the 8th
Dunchee on the 12th
DNR on the 13th along with RTW
14th there was something but I can't remember
Cunstruction suspost to start around the second week with the track hoe opperator. And the new rec manager should come on board around the 16 of the month just for the south area of the NW region IE morning star and Reiter will be his areas.
Here we go another fun filled month. So fart this month we have a meeting set up with Dubche to discuss the removal of county afferrs in DNR trails and the beginning of trail building in area 6 and the reliese of the forst 30% of 4x4 trail. Alll 1700 ft.
Sky valley on the 8th
Dunchee on the 12th
DNR on the 13th along with RTW
14th there was something but I can't remember
Cunstruction suspost to start around the second week with the track hoe opperator. And the new rec manager should come on board around the 16 of the month just for the south area of the NW region IE morning star and Reiter will be his areas.
06/04/2012
Wow what a day. DNR is in upheaval agian. they are moving and canning people left and right. Stan is no longer in recreation, Dave is back at Reiter starting the 1st of July. Mark might be changing jobs and everything is a mess. It ot to be a few fgood weeks of drama in DNR land. Good news is that work is starting to move foward at area 6 staging area for the rock is done and WCC crews are suppost to start soon. Ted, Steve and I are doing a little pressure cooker on Mark and the running of DNR. I personally thing Mark is going to bail before the word of fund mismanagment comes out. At this point there is no law that the trails need to be engineered by anyone and that the only reason they are doing it is because of Bill Lidar and the threat of him starting a law suete
Wow what a day. DNR is in upheaval agian. they are moving and canning people left and right. Stan is no longer in recreation, Dave is back at Reiter starting the 1st of July. Mark might be changing jobs and everything is a mess. It ot to be a few fgood weeks of drama in DNR land. Good news is that work is starting to move foward at area 6 staging area for the rock is done and WCC crews are suppost to start soon. Ted, Steve and I are doing a little pressure cooker on Mark and the running of DNR. I personally thing Mark is going to bail before the word of fund mismanagment comes out. At this point there is no law that the trails need to be engineered by anyone and that the only reason they are doing it is because of Bill Lidar and the threat of him starting a law suete
06/06/2012
Today I got the first glimps of the world class 4x4 area. I think that he is reading the HBB specs, but has no idea of what he is doing. The plans show rocks in a semetrical order. I think that he is going to need a lot of help. But the possibility of something good is there.
My personal feelings at this point is that they are stalling for that nothing happens in the 4x4 area this summer.
On another note. I caught wind of that Ben( DNR NW region manager ) Mark M and goldmar had a meeting today about getting ALL of the single track trails open by Aug 1st. Goldmar I guess put his foot down and said that Reiter will be open this summer 7 days a week. I am intrested to hear how this meeting turned out. Mike check your mail for the trail plans that has been fowarded from David W today. Any questions please let me know.
Today I got the first glimps of the world class 4x4 area. I think that he is reading the HBB specs, but has no idea of what he is doing. The plans show rocks in a semetrical order. I think that he is going to need a lot of help. But the possibility of something good is there.
My personal feelings at this point is that they are stalling for that nothing happens in the 4x4 area this summer.
On another note. I caught wind of that Ben( DNR NW region manager ) Mark M and goldmar had a meeting today about getting ALL of the single track trails open by Aug 1st. Goldmar I guess put his foot down and said that Reiter will be open this summer 7 days a week. I am intrested to hear how this meeting turned out. Mike check your mail for the trail plans that has been fowarded from David W today. Any questions please let me know.
06/07/2012
Well yesterday I went up and looked at the single track and what was going on with it. . It looked like there was about 500 to 1000 ft cleared with the track hoe. I personally it looks like a road. It has a good X and Y axes but Z totally sucks. there is no micro elavation changes. Digging out the highs and filling the lows is what it looks like. Personally if they built the 4x4 trails the same exact way that they are building the moto trails at this point. I would love it.
What I saw in the way the trails are being built in the topo teardown is the exact worry i have with the 4x4. I think this is going to be the biggest hurtle that we have working with this engineer. I personally think if we can concor this, we will be golden.
Well yesterday I went up and looked at the single track and what was going on with it. . It looked like there was about 500 to 1000 ft cleared with the track hoe. I personally it looks like a road. It has a good X and Y axes but Z totally sucks. there is no micro elavation changes. Digging out the highs and filling the lows is what it looks like. Personally if they built the 4x4 trails the same exact way that they are building the moto trails at this point. I would love it.
What I saw in the way the trails are being built in the topo teardown is the exact worry i have with the 4x4. I think this is going to be the biggest hurtle that we have working with this engineer. I personally think if we can concor this, we will be golden.
06/19/2012
Ok so we have had a couple meetings since my last post and the big concern is thr turning radious of the corners at this time. David has been going to bat for us and things are moving foward. Here is the letter that David sent off to Laurie that is going to make the decision
From: WAY, DAVID (DNR)
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:39 PM
To: BERGVALL, LAURIE (DNR)
Cc: MCGUIRE, AL (DNR)
Subject: Reiter 4x4 Turning Radius
Laurie,
Al wanted me to follow-up with you regarding the technical information and some background regarding the turning radius discussion with the engineered specs for the 4x4 trails. The concern is that Jim P. is designing these trails with the tightest turning radius at 30ft. The only problem with this is that he will essentially be changing the whole dynamic of what was laid out on the ground for many of the trails to come in his design process. The trail he has already designed up to the 30%, is not a problem and can stay the way it is. The concern is the rest of the
Ok so we have had a couple meetings since my last post and the big concern is thr turning radious of the corners at this time. David has been going to bat for us and things are moving foward. Here is the letter that David sent off to Laurie that is going to make the decision
From: WAY, DAVID (DNR)
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:39 PM
To: BERGVALL, LAURIE (DNR)
Cc: MCGUIRE, AL (DNR)
Subject: Reiter 4x4 Turning Radius
Laurie,
Al wanted me to follow-up with you regarding the technical information and some background regarding the turning radius discussion with the engineered specs for the 4x4 trails. The concern is that Jim P. is designing these trails with the tightest turning radius at 30ft. The only problem with this is that he will essentially be changing the whole dynamic of what was laid out on the ground for many of the trails to come in his design process. The trail he has already designed up to the 30%, is not a problem and can stay the way it is. The concern is the rest of the
06/26/2012
So Peter goldmar and all of the DNR staff is meeting at Reiter today to see what is up and also press. This is a closed meeting and I have weezeled my way in. David and Al want to talk after the meeting about the 4x4 area for the corners. At this point we are still on for a trail this year. I was told that the 60% design will be out next week
After I get the corner problem solved then I can move on to the next problem. I guess the delay was that Al was on vacation and everything was waiting for him to return.
So Peter goldmar and all of the DNR staff is meeting at Reiter today to see what is up and also press. This is a closed meeting and I have weezeled my way in. David and Al want to talk after the meeting about the 4x4 area for the corners. At this point we are still on for a trail this year. I was told that the 60% design will be out next week
After I get the corner problem solved then I can move on to the next problem. I guess the delay was that Al was on vacation and everything was waiting for him to return.
06/26/2012
I met with the commitioner, Ben ( NW regoin manager) and Al at Reiter today and something should be comming out in the Everett hearld today on it. I think the over all meeting went good. How much we have problems with DNR. I still think we need to support them. We can't aford the bad press on Reiter. I had a chance to talk to Ben and Al about the 4x4 trails and what I saw going srong as I see it. I think that we are going to get what we want. I hear we should know by Thursday on the corners and by next week in the 60% design of our first trail.
I just keep the pressure on in the way that i know how to and what seems to work
I met with the commitioner, Ben ( NW regoin manager) and Al at Reiter today and something should be comming out in the Everett hearld today on it. I think the over all meeting went good. How much we have problems with DNR. I still think we need to support them. We can't aford the bad press on Reiter. I had a chance to talk to Ben and Al about the 4x4 trails and what I saw going srong as I see it. I think that we are going to get what we want. I hear we should know by Thursday on the corners and by next week in the 60% design of our first trail.
I just keep the pressure on in the way that i know how to and what seems to work
06/28/2012
So Yesterday.Cals from Mark and dealing with BLs bull **** from Saturdayand Marks and Bens reply back from his lletter. Then off to the focus group meeting. Same BS and smoke and morrors. BUT at the end I was told by Al to stick around and he then told me about the turning radious decision. He said that they are going to 24ft radious for the first trail. I am going to get this is writting but I basically told then that is not acceptable for the rest of the trailsOr I think that I put it is NO WAY IN HELL IS THAT GOING TO WORK FOR THE REST OF THE TRAILS.
tHEN THE ENVIRO TEAM WANTED TO TALK TO ME AFTER THE MEETING. tHE ENVIRO TEAM IS cAROL FORSGARD, tOM tOWNS AND i FORGET THE 3D. bU BASICALLY THEY APPOLIGISED FOR blS ACTIONS AND ARE GOING TO HAVE A SIT DOWN TALK WITH HIM
So Yesterday.Cals from Mark and dealing with BLs bull **** from Saturdayand Marks and Bens reply back from his lletter. Then off to the focus group meeting. Same BS and smoke and morrors. BUT at the end I was told by Al to stick around and he then told me about the turning radious decision. He said that they are going to 24ft radious for the first trail. I am going to get this is writting but I basically told then that is not acceptable for the rest of the trailsOr I think that I put it is NO WAY IN HELL IS THAT GOING TO WORK FOR THE REST OF THE TRAILS.
tHEN THE ENVIRO TEAM WANTED TO TALK TO ME AFTER THE MEETING. tHE ENVIRO TEAM IS cAROL FORSGARD, tOM tOWNS AND i FORGET THE 3D. bU BASICALLY THEY APPOLIGISED FOR blS ACTIONS AND ARE GOING TO HAVE A SIT DOWN TALK WITH HIM
06/30/2012
Things do come to people that try.
Yesterday the DNR found out that the WCC crews and ST materials will be covered under the new washing state JOBS bill. So in short Reiter got $500,000 for the WCC crews and there time. Looks like the ST might get a lot more that they expected. But also it frees up the origional grant for Reiter for the 4x4. So we might get more than we were going to get at first also
Time will tell and we will see what comes out of this new gold mine
Also the NOVA grant for the 4x4 area is going to be reduces from 900.000 to 500,000 for the job
Things do come to people that try.
Yesterday the DNR found out that the WCC crews and ST materials will be covered under the new washing state JOBS bill. So in short Reiter got $500,000 for the WCC crews and there time. Looks like the ST might get a lot more that they expected. But also it frees up the origional grant for Reiter for the 4x4. So we might get more than we were going to get at first also
Time will tell and we will see what comes out of this new gold mine
Also the NOVA grant for the 4x4 area is going to be reduces from 900.000 to 500,000 for the job
07/11/12
Well I think we got our corners. Al the mew manager of the area is going to bat for us. He is saying that the corners ARE going to be sharper. The engineer and olynpia are having a total cow over this. It might slow things down a little but it is a must to get this solved for the better of the trails. Also I was plomised the new revised plans yesterday but didn't get them. So I am hopping today for the meeting. But I bet tomorrow.
Also the 2 new people that they hired for the area to replace eleas and also woprk Reiter quit before there first day on the job. So that is up for what is going to happen. So at this time Walker and Reiter don't have what they were promised for personel on site
Well I think we got our corners. Al the mew manager of the area is going to bat for us. He is saying that the corners ARE going to be sharper. The engineer and olynpia are having a total cow over this. It might slow things down a little but it is a must to get this solved for the better of the trails. Also I was plomised the new revised plans yesterday but didn't get them. So I am hopping today for the meeting. But I bet tomorrow.
Also the 2 new people that they hired for the area to replace eleas and also woprk Reiter quit before there first day on the job. So that is up for what is going to happen. So at this time Walker and Reiter don't have what they were promised for personel on site
As the world turns. It went from we have lots of time to build this year to well we don't know how we are going to build this year. ( nothing like I told them to get on it) so here are the cases. If they go out to bid for the entire job. It is 3 months from start. If they hire a crew. Well they can't at this time. If they can figure out how to keep the contract under 35 grand they cann do that in 60 days. Volinteer labor running equipment over 1500 lbs is out untill they get the NEW policy in place for who can and can't run equipment.
But as of today I think the trail is lined with trees is gone and I think we got our corners, Over all I think it is going to be drive, big bump left, drive big bump right. log, log and then to will start all over agian. But then agian it is wheelin and we do get to get out in the outdoors
But as of today I think the trail is lined with trees is gone and I think we got our corners, Over all I think it is going to be drive, big bump left, drive big bump right. log, log and then to will start all over agian. But then agian it is wheelin and we do get to get out in the outdoors
My request for information on meeting minutes returned nothing. The officiall statment is
View attachment 52756
I have now refrased my question to see the results on this to
View attachment 52756
I have now refrased my question to see the results on this to
