Steering Tie Rod

cushmaneaglerider · Jan 28, 2015

So, I am wanting to run the steering behind the axle. Problem is tie rod on top of arms, rod hits the links. Tie rod on bottom of arms, rod hits the chuck. Tie rod on top of passenger side and bottom of driver side clears fine. Anyone see any problems with this? Comments and questions welcomed.

Elliott · Jan 28, 2015

If that is your front axle your ackerman is going to be off, Its going to push like crazy when you turn

cushmaneaglerider · Jan 28, 2015

Are you saying one tire will turn more than the other? Or turn at different rates?

Eddyj · Jan 28, 2015

Patooyee is the local Ackerman expert. He had a good write up on it. I believe it was discussed in a Rockwell thread.

al1tonyota · Jan 28, 2015

Just run it in the front! It works!!! One on top one on bottom will cause some serious stress!

drivermod · Jan 28, 2015

Other than looking a bit odd, I don't see anything wrong with it. Al1tonyota, can you explain how this would cause "serious stress" ?

Eddyj · Jan 28, 2015

edited
I'm an idiot. Misread the last couple posts.

However I believe what he is saying is. Running the tie rod behind knuckles will affect Ackerman. Some people can live with this on an off-road vehicle. Some can't.
The running it one up one down shouldn't effect it any worse as long as both arms are equal length.

al1tonyota · Jan 28, 2015

drivermod said:
Other than looking a bit odd, I don't see anything wrong with it. Al1tonyota, can you explain how this would cause "serious stress" ?

The added stress will be pulling up and down on the arms instead of the arms being pulled on a level plane they will be pulled from side to side while also being pulled up and down!
On another note you aren't plan it on running the stock tierod and a high steer tie rod correct?

paradisepwoffrd · Jan 28, 2015

Re:

Running it on the back will get closer to correct Ackerman than the same arms in the front.

Having it angled like that will put a twisting moment on the arms. Will possibly cause the bolts to loosen.

Looks like it might still hit links at full right turn

offroadwerks · Jan 28, 2015

I say run it....the mis-alignment spacers will take care of any stress. Let the diff cover and axle tube beat the rocks while tie rod is protected. Is there room for the ram back there too? Where is the build thread??? :JRich:

drivermod · Jan 28, 2015

al1tonyota said:
The added stress will be pulling up and down on the arms instead of the arms being pulled on a level plane they will be pulled from side to side while also being pulled up and down!
On another note you aren't plan it on running the stock tierod and a high steer tie rod correct?

There will be some minor stress putting the arm bolts in tension but shouldn't be anything they can't handle. The tierod can't be more than a couple degrees from parallel to the ground.

Eddyj · Jan 28, 2015

^^agreed ^^

offroadwerks · Jan 29, 2015

drivermod said:
There will be some minor stress putting the arm bolts in tension but shouldn't be anything they can't handle. The tierod can't be more than a couple degrees from parallel to the ground.

Why?

Toddy · Jan 29, 2015

Why not put alittle kink it to clear and some rubber washers to keep it from floping? That's how they do trailing arms and it seams to work.

Elliott · Jan 29, 2015

paradisepwoffrd said:
Running it on the back will get closer to correct Ackerman than the same arms in the front.

Having it angled like that will put a twisting moment on the arms. Will possibly cause the bolts to loosen.

Looks like it might still hit links at full right turn

I'm not understanding how this could be? To my knowledge rockwells are the only axle with steering behind the front axle.You can almost see the arms pointing outwards towards the front of the buggy in the picture, which the picture could be deceiving, maybe they are running some kind of knuckle and arm I haven't seen yet. To get correct ackerman the steering arms need to be pointing towards the center of the rear axle.

Elliott · Jan 29, 2015

cushmaneaglerider said:
Are you saying one tire will turn more than the other? Or turn at different rates?

Think about it like this, when you drive around a sharp curve, the inside tire drives shorter and drives a sharper corner than the outside tire does.So the knuckles and arms are positioned in a way to make the tires turn and different rates at the same time to make the tires not push thru a curve.

I have a front and rear steer rockwelled buggy, the front is setup with the steering in front of the axle which is not the way the factory designed it to be, The rear is in the correct position. You can tell a huge difference between the front and rears turning ability. If it wasn't for having rear steer I would have trouble in tight spots, with rear steer I can turn how I need to. BUT If I was to go back and reposition my ram and arms on the rear of the front axle I would benefit greatly and make it where I didn't have to use rear steer as much (but I like using it and don't have the time to change it so screw it) There is a lot of information of this topic online that is a lot more in depth but that is the basic concept of it hope it helps.

TBItoy · Jan 29, 2015

Re:

It'll be fine,

It'll look odd, but if it works who cares.

If your high steer arms are straight (and they appear to be) then your Ackerman won't matter, because the arms are straight!

(Ok it will be slightly better facing backwards, because the vertical center of the steering axis is slightly outside the the upper kingpin, but whatever, it's close enough)

al1tonyota · Jan 29, 2015

Ahh just run it how ya want it'll work! What's the worst that could happen? :fish:

cushmaneaglerider · Jan 29, 2015

The arms are Blue Torch Fab, they angle in at the rod mounting point. I have cycled this through several times with the stock tie rod in place, every thing is smooth.

TBItoy · Jan 29, 2015

Re: Re: Steering Tie Rod

cushmaneaglerider said:
The arms are Blue Torch Fab, they angle in at the rod mounting point. I have cycled this through several times with the stock tie rod in place, every thing is smooth.

Well if they angle in, then it'll definitely have better Ackerman with the arms facing backwards.

I would think that mounting a double ended cylinder on the back of the axle would be the best solution, as it is stationary and moves in a fixed location rather than swinging around and such like a tierod/SE ram setup.