Dixie Run To Windrock For 2020?? TonyB Approved??

While I feel that does apply to most things, I'm not sure it fits here.

The Luke said:

J.p., I'll warn you, I'm very anti sfwda. I've spent more time than I care to admit asking for their tax forms, to which I finally received and dissected. I asked more questions, and they got dismissed. So due to that, I'm out.

That said, you seem to have a somewhat level head about this and haven't responded like a complete nutsack like most sfwda representatives have in the past. So who are you? What are your ties to sfwda? Just a member? On the board? (This might have been covered before and I missed it). Asking to legitimately attempt to close the gap. I 100% think if the money that sfwda collects was actually being used in an appropriate way and could be accounted for/proven then it could sway MOST of this board. Which has everything from no names like myself, to major business owners in the Offroad world, to the majority of the guys running the race series's.

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Thank you, and yes like yourself I always have lots of questions. Just a little back Ground, I went to my first Dixie Run in 1995 and decided to join SFWDA. I was young and some what followed until I joined the Air Force in 2000. I was gone for a few years and came back in 2005. Started coming back to Dixie Run and going to meetings. I was at the first Trail Fest and Most of them afterwards. I got involved in trying to save Tellico and got a bad taste for SFWDA in my mouth because I felt that we were being to passive in our fight. I still did some stuff but I was a little cynical about what happened. In 2011-2012 some major changes happened and I decided to help them reemerge and did P.R. work and helped with reorganization. In 2017 I had my fill and stepped back. Until recently I thought I was going to stay that way. A Vice President position came open for a 1 year term, I decided to put my name in the hat and was lucky enough to be elected. If they don't decided to strangle me between now and next year I may stay on board. I can tell your that all the money is accounted for and is going to off road use in Conservation, Education or Recreation. ( Copies of the budget are available) Trust me and ask anyone I am a Fiscal conservative, if something doesn't pass the smell test I ask questions.

Now I have a question.....SFWDA is not about me. It's what I can do to make it better for the people who Four Wheel. We can only get out and help the sections of the market that are brought to our attention. What can I or we do realistically to help bridge the gap? I am a member or 2 clubs Rattle Rock Club and ET4WD. I give SFWDA feedback from these clubs and others I know around the Southeast. I am not on the Board to make friends. Most of them know me and already have an opinion of me. What I would like to do is get the voice of others heard and keeps us relevant in the off-road community.

jeeptj99 said:

That's probably the smartest thing you have ever said.

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You'd get tired of saying that if you were around me more.

...I'm the hand up Mona Lisa's skirt. I'm a surprise. They don't see me coming: that's what you're missing.

The Luke said:

While I feel that does apply to most things, I'm not sure it fits here.

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Oh it does.....notice how thread went DEAD/***CRICKETS*** on your Gaybook post? You've done everything in your power to educate yourself and you still have same/more questions.

tonybolton said:

My dad always told me if you have to ask for answers that you couldn't figure out by educating yourself on the subject, then you weren't meant to know for a reason.

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I always thought asking questions was a form of educating yourself?.

xjcrawler said:

I always thought asking questions was a form of educating yourself?.

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It's all in how you interpret the basis of the question(s).

By asking a question you could just be creating pigeon hole and giving enough rope to Epstein themselves.

If Southern was smart they would buy their own park to host their shitty rides and teach newbies how to winch. If it was ran properly it would be an income stream or a writeoff at worst and the sky really is the limit to all the rides/educational opportunities/land use/club meetings etc that they could host. I've been saying this for years. But I guess it's easier to just collect dues and sit on your ass and pick up trash at Uwharrie.

redneckengineered said:

If Southern was smart they would buy their own park to host their shitty rides and teach newbies how to winch. If it was ran properly it would be an income stream or a writeoff at worst and the sky really is the limit to all the rides/educational opportunities/land use/club meetings etc that they could host. I've been saying this for years. But I guess it's easier to just collect dues and sit on your ass and pick up trash at Uwharrie.

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....****in' heat right there. Won't need a winter coat after reading that!!

I'm all for getting more people involved in offroading. Not everyone can afford a boucner, WOD, or insanely built jeep and i get it. I just SFWDA wasnt so sketchy about the way they do things. Maybe you are trying to change them but it doesnt seem to help. This issue was brought up again on here not to long ago and it was just more smoke and mirrors.

redneckengineered said:

If Southern was smart they would buy their own park to host their shitty rides and teach newbies how to winch. If it was ran properly it would be an income stream or a writeoff at worst and the sky really is the limit to all the rides/educational opportunities/land use/club meetings etc that they could host. I've been saying this for years. But I guess it's easier to just collect dues and sit on your ass and pick up trash at Uwharrie.

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If that happens, I'll kick them in the nuts for you!!! That's not what I'm about. In fact that is the second time this year I heard that, I was up in Townsend talking to a fellow Four Wheeler from Nashville this summer. He feels that SFWDA should purchase and run a park as well. He had a pretty good business model. Only issue would be we would have to focus all our effort on that one park vs. trying to keep it at a broader spectrum. SFWDA has made some YouTube videos to try to reach out to newbies about off road etiquette. We all got to start somewhere. Hopefully the park that will be opening in Coal Mount ,TN will be a place where we can focus some on the ground efforts.

In the past Southern has always been adverse to helping private parks and fashioned themselves more as a land use group but they need to wake up and smell the coffee. This is the east coast, we don't have millions of acres of public land to fight for. The future of offroad is in the hands of the guys putting their personal money/assets on the line to run private parks for us to ride at. Southern should be doing a trail maintenance/cleanup/work weekend at every private park in the Southeast at a bare minimum of once a year. Maybe then some of these park owners might see some benefit in the group because I can promise you right now you're the laughing stock. Park owners need a group to fight for them. Southern could be the group if they were willing to evolve.

redneckengineered said:

In the past Southern has always been adverse to helping private parks and fashioned themselves more as a land use group but they need to wake up and smell the coffee. This is the east coast, we don't have millions of acres of public land to fight for. The future of offroad is in the hands of the guys putting their personal money/assets on the line to run private parks for us to ride at. Southern should be doing a trail maintenance/cleanup/work weekend at every private park in the Southeast at a bare minimum of once a year. Maybe then some of these park owners might see some benefit in the group because I can promise you right now you're the laughing stock. Park owners need a group to fight for them. Southern could be the group if they were willing to evolve.

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Very Well Said,
I can tell you that I have cut trails At GMP and Windrock both. I have done trail clean ups at several places. And my efforts are to get Southern where you are talking about. I have a leadership meeting in February. I want concrete stuff like this to take to them. Also if you know of someone needing help at their private park please have them check out our grant page or IM me. I will do my best to get it to the right people. Trust me I have already been smacking the hornets nest this week and told them to check out this link. In a year from now people will be thanking me for my efforts or hate me for being a pain in their ass. Either way I'll still be riding and raising Hell. But for now I am in a spot to make my voice be heard, I am going to do my best to take advantage of it. And yes, I will be giving them your ideas as feedback.

A lot of our issues is the shadyness of it all. Myself and others were threatened by your director of social media when we asked questions and spent COUNTLESS messages back and forth with Ray and other sfwda reps. All of which was a total waste of time and only received bs open ended generic answers that didn't help in any way possible. There's lots of "don't question it, just trust us" type answers and given sfwda's past, that won't fly. So break it down, dollar for dollar. Post up yalls power point from the 2019 meeting that helps explain it. Quit saying "if you'd come to our annual meeting that's on the other side of the state, and you'll get the answers"

If the **** bags that are on that board are that aggressive online, how's it going to be when we speak against sfwda in a room full of nutswingers?

J.P. said:

Very Well Said,
I can tell you that I have cut trails At GMP and Windrock both. I have done trail clean ups at several places. And my efforts are to get Southern where you are talking about. I have a leadership meeting in February. I want concrete stuff like this to take to them. Also if you know of someone needing help at their private park please have them check out our grant page or IM me. I will do my best to get it to the right people. Trust me I have already been smacking the hornets nest this week and told them to check out this link. In a year from now people will be thanking me for my efforts or hate me for being a pain in their ass. Either way I'll still be riding and raising Hell. But for now I am in a spot to make my voice be heard, I am going to do my best to take advantage of it. And yes, I will be giving them your ideas as feedback.

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I had a buddy that tried to do what you're doing years ago. He ran into a brick wall of old school BS. The elders circled the wagons and things never changed. Good luck. I mean that sincerely.

Please Show us you can build a better park , before you throw grant / influence toward others! Yes we have a bad taste for southern, They seem to close more parks than they open. Did southern offer grant money to GMP.. I only heard "yes hearsay" They pissed off the owner. That is why the dixie run was the last ride there. I'm glad to hear you helped with trails there .. I did not think southern did anything more than complain. Told the owner SHE needed to do trail maintenance and cut more easy trails. It was her responsibility if she wanted Southern back. Again just 2nd hand info. ! But adds fuel to the fire.

On the other side.. Please use your influence to open parks!!! Open more than one !! Prove it makes money and sell it . We do need more places to ride, since as stated .We on the east coast don't have any public options.

Lobby For east coast public land use !!

The Luke said:

If the **** bags that are on that board are that aggressive online, how's it going to be when we speak against sfwda in a room full of nutswingers?

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one of said dickbags didnt say **** to my face after threatening to kick my ass several times, but he did mean mug the absolute **** out of me all day.

On topic: Windrock is the perfect place for the Dixie run !
Off topic : I don't know or ask who is who.. But the most rude people i have met on trails or events have been southern members.

Jane Randolph could not guarantee if the park would be open or not or for sale or not for the following Dixie Run. When we asked if it was going to be sold and for how much there was not a price or even a survey which would be provided at the time. So that is when it was moved to AOP and about the time I gracefully stepped down. In fact B.O., Greg and my self and a few other went in to cut easy trails to help this out. There are some really good people with SFWDA and some that are not. I can remember years ago the Tennessee Mountain Junkies came to Trail Fest and wanted to buy some raffle tickets. They were asked to leave because they were not part of the event. To me that's not extending an olive branch. But there is also one ASSHOLE in the group. I can't fix with the past, but I will try and help with the future. Lots of Talk about GMP right now hopefully what I hear is true and not BS. But if it ever reopens I feel SFWDA will be ready to help and be involved.

redneckengineered said:

In the past Southern has always been adverse to helping private parks and fashioned themselves more as a land use group but they need to wake up and smell the coffee. This is the east coast, we don't have millions of acres of public land to fight for. The future of offroad is in the hands of the guys putting their personal money/assets on the line to run private parks for us to ride at. Southern should be doing a trail maintenance/cleanup/work weekend at every private park in the Southeast at a bare minimum of once a year. Maybe then some of these park owners might see some benefit in the group because I can promise you right now you're the laughing stock. Park owners need a group to fight for them. Southern could be the group if they were willing to evolve.

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Unless Tennessee can get some gov't people in place that are pro OHV in TWRA and TN Forestry, then you are right.

There is a lot of trails on WMAs in TN, but with the exception of Royal Blue/Cumberland, none are promoted.

Most of us fear that if the trails are "known" then it will turn into an Aetna situation.




Y'all remember the OHV4TN Lobby group? That was a exercise in futility against TWRA...


I think a good focus for SFWDA would be getting more large private land owners (corporations) to open their land to OHV access and "high challenge trail development", like WINDROCK.

There are a million acres of private timber/mineral company land in TN that could be potential for legal trails. Just click around on the TN property viewer, and you'll find places like a ~15,000 acre tract just outside of Winchester... *cough iron gap *cough

What about Brimstone? I never hear of anyone riding trucks/Jeeps/buggies there? what's up with that place?

TBItoy said:

Unless Tennessee can get some gov't people in place that are pro OHV in TWRA and TN Forestry, then you are right.

There is a lot of trails on WMAs in TN, but with the exception of Royal Blue/Cumberland, none are promoted.

Most of us fear that if the trails are "known" then it will turn into an Aetna situation.




Y'all remember the OHV4TN Lobby group? That was a exercise in futility against TWRA...


I think a good focus for SFWDA would be getting more large private land owners (corporations) to open their land to OHV access and "high challenge trail development", like WINDROCK.

There are a million acres of private timber/mineral company land in TN that could be potential for legal trails. Just click around on the TN property viewer, and you'll find places like a ~15,000 acre tract just outside of Winchester... *cough iron gap *cough

What about Brimstone? I never hear of anyone riding trucks/Jeeps/buggies there? what's up with that place?

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As far as Brimstone goes and the Inception of it Big South Fork off-road was opening trails. But now my understanding it is strictly side by side. I could be wrong.

I hate to bring up Coal Mount again because I know I have mentioned it several times. But there was around $800,000 awarded by the state of Tennessee in RTP funds to develop a Off Road Park. Southern will be contributing a significant amount and labor dollars and equipment to development. Check it out on Facebook. There are work days coming up.

15,000 is significant, first I have heard of this. I would be interested in hearing more and getting a discussion going. Windrock was started by a four-wheeler Club and a few Jeep club's working with a local Coal Company. Which is now an impressive business model.