Unit Bearing on kingpin knuckle

paradisepwoffrd · Oct 19, 2020

Was doing some maintenance to the rig and decided to test fit the pieces, since I had it apart.

I didnt have the correct bolts/studs so ignore that part, but the dimensions seem to match up well. The slug and cap still need work to finish them out, but honestly that is the part most places would already know.

Would still need to figure out the brakes, but there should be plenty of room to adapt a bracket to work.

87TPIYJ · Oct 20, 2020

Can you make the stand off 1/2" less so you can put a caliper bracket behind the adapter like this? This is the one I made for 2500HD rotors and calipers.

paradisepwoffrd · Oct 22, 2020

One thing I should note. My axle is a balljoint 60, which has the integrated caliper mount. The face on the knuckle is compensated for this extra thickness. If you used it on a kingpin axle, the Ford caliper mount should still go behind the "spindle" like in the stock configuration, or atleast a spacer would. The chevy caliper mount goes in front of the standard spindle, IIRC, so it wouldnt be needed, or would need to be modified to be used.

The WMS on this setup is farther out though, so not sure if any of the normal caliper mounts will work, without a deep rotor.

TBItoy · Oct 22, 2020

I just assumed if a person were going this route, which I would imagine would be to run 40 spline stub shafts.....then I would also assume you'd build caliper brackets off of the unit bearing adapter to fit whatever rotor you chose (probably a light weight "racing" style hat+rotor)

of course the merits of running 40 spline stubs, while limited to 1480 size joints of a KP/pre-05 BJ knuckle is debatable in itself, considering the other large-joint knuckle capable options available now.

paradisepwoffrd · Oct 23, 2020

TBItoy said:
I just assumed if a person were going this route, which I would imagine would be to run 40 spline stub shafts.....then I would also assume you'd build caliper brackets off of the unit bearing adapter to fit whatever rotor you chose (probably a light weight "racing" style hat+rotor)

of course the merits of running 40 spline stubs, while limited to 1480 size joints of a KP/pre-05 BJ knuckle is debatable in itself, considering the other large-joint knuckle capable options available now.

Agreed.

My initial thoughts were to be able to run 05+ UB up front, to match the ones on the rear axle, and speed up possible trail repairs. But I wanted to not have to re-purchase the axle shafts.

With the cost to machine this adapter, most likely, it would be cheaper to build a 05+ sd60, reusing the gears/lockers.

Could also covert the front to a slip-over style rotor, and not have to deal with loose bearings and grease on the trail again.

TBItoy · Oct 23, 2020

paradisepwoffrd said:
Agreed.

My initial thoughts were to be able to run 05+ UB up front, to match the ones on the rear axle, and speed up possible trail repairs. But I wanted to not have to re-purchase the axle shafts.

With the cost to machine this adapter, most likely, it would be cheaper to build a 05+ sd60, reusing the gears/lockers.

Could also covert the front to a slip-over style rotor, and not have to deal with loose bearings and grease on the trail again.

Also it seems like with modern machining and availability of tools and parts, that some of the "mystery" or "difficultly" of swapping knuckles/Cs, re-tubing, custom axles, etc has gone away.

Especially considering that Spicer "Ultimate Dana 60" inner Cs are $100/ea, and are compatible with stock 05+ Super Duty knuckles.

If I had a nicely built HP60 already in a rig, and wanted to run big steering joints, swapping outer assemblies would probably be the route to go. :dunno:

Markrobinson · Oct 25, 2020

TBItoy said:
Also it seems like with modern machining and availability of tools and parts, that some of the "mystery" or "difficultly" of swapping knuckles/Cs, re-tubing, custom axles, etc has gone away.

Especially considering that Spicer "Ultimate Dana 60" inner Cs are $100/ea, and are compatible with stock 05+ Super Duty knuckles.

If I had a nicely built HP60 already in a rig, and wanted to run big steering joints, swapping outer assemblies would probably be the route to go.

Where are you finding those inner Cs? I've been eyeing the late model outers instead of upgrading to 35 spline outers on my 99-04 axle. The new unit bearings, machine work, and slugs sure make 05+ parts look attractive.

EDITTED TO ADD: found them.

paradisepwoffrd · Oct 27, 2020

TBItoy said:
Also it seems like with modern machining and availability of tools and parts, that some of the "mystery" or "difficultly" of swapping knuckles/Cs, re-tubing, custom axles, etc has gone away.

Especially considering that Spicer "Ultimate Dana 60" inner Cs are $100/ea, and are compatible with stock 05+ Super Duty knuckles.

If I had a nicely built HP60 already in a rig, and wanted to run big steering joints, swapping outer assemblies would probably be the route to go.

I would also agree with that. But that also puts you into running custom shafts. Not sure that is an issue for most, esp if you are going to spend the money for Overson, Branik, or RCV with the big stub.

For my axle, Ball joint eliminators can also fix some of the desire to run UB up front. Changing axles doesnt require pulling apart the hub, or even the slug/cap if you dont run the outer snap ring.

sfickett · Dec 31, 2022

pennsylvaniaboy said:
i dont know the technical specs about the difference in length , although I have both sitting here so maybe I can sometime. If you were going to do all this and make an adapter etc, I would ditch the big heavy d60 brake calipers and adapt it to the 3/4 ton chevy setup. Saves a lot of weight, easier to package, etc

Did anything end up coming off this setup? I'm going to be putting my axles together this winter and switching everything to unit bearing outer assemblies would be awesome.

sfickett · Dec 31, 2022

pennsylvaniaboy said:
i dont know the technical specs about the difference in length , although I have both sitting here so maybe I can sometime. If you were going to do all this and make an adapter etc, I would ditch the big heavy d60 brake calipers and adapt it to the 3/4 ton chevy setup. Saves a lot of weight, easier to package, etc

Did anything end up coming off this setup? I'm going to be putting my axles together this winter

sfickett · Dec 31, 2022

paradisepwoffrd said:
Was doing some maintenance to the rig and decided to test fit the pieces, since I had it apart.

I didnt have the correct bolts/studs so ignore that part, but the dimensions seem to match up well. The slug and cap still need work to finish them out, but honestly that is the part most places would already know.

Would still need to figure out the brakes, but there should be plenty of room to adapt a bracket to work.

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Did anything come of this setup? I'm going to be doing the final assembly of my king pin 60 this winter. And would really like to no have to use the rotor that's pressed on with the studs and the spindle with bearings. I it would make everything super easy maintenance and repair wise if I could just bolt a unit bearing in there. I have no problem in having a custom stub shaft made. If it's possible to just drill some holes in the knuckle and bolt the unit bearing right on.

paradisepwoffrd · Jan 4, 2023

sfickett said:
Did anything come of this setup? I'm going to be doing the final assembly of my king pin 60 this winter. And would really like to no have to use the rotor that's pressed on with the studs and the spindle with bearings. I it would make everything super easy maintenance and repair wise if I could just bolt a unit bearing in there. I have no problem in having a custom stub shaft made. If it's possible to just drill some holes in the knuckle and bolt the unit bearing right on.

The 99-04 unit bearing is the closest to fitting. If custom shafts arent an issue, it should be able to bolt up easily.

05+ UB idea basically died. Noone would pay for the adapter to run it on KP knuckles, given how cheap/easy it would be to swap the knuckles/axle.

If you arent limited by wheel size, I believe there are brakes solutions that allow slip on rotors. Doing that should allow the traditional spindle/hub to be removed from the axle, without pulling it apart. It would essentially become a large, rebuildable, UB.

sfickett · Jan 6, 2023

paradisepwoffrd said:
The 99-04 unit bearing is the closest to fitting. If custom shafts arent an issue, it should be able to bolt up easily.

05+ UB idea basically died. Noone would pay for the adapter to run it on KP knuckles, given how cheap/easy it would be to swap the knuckles/axle.

If you arent limited by wheel size, I believe there are brakes solutions that allow slip on rotors. Doing that should allow the traditional spindle/hub to be removed from the axle, without pulling it apart. It would essentially become a large, rebuildable, UB.

Oh ok I don't have any wheels picked out yet just a set of rollers for the time being. I wouldn't have a problem with the stock spindle and hub as long as it was slip on rotors. Was the adapter to run the 05+ UB needed to try and utilize the stock stub shaft? If a custom stub shaft was made could it be possible to bolt the UB right to the knuckle? Main reason I want to do a UB is because I found a weld on cup the other day to make the rear axle a UB also so that means only needing to carry one spare

paradisepwoffrd · Jan 9, 2023

sfickett said:
Oh ok I don't have any wheels picked out yet just a set of rollers for the time being. I wouldn't have a problem with the stock spindle and hub as long as it was slip on rotors. Was the adapter to run the 05+ UB needed to try and utilize the stock stub shaft? If a custom stub shaft was made could it be possible to bolt the UB right to the knuckle? Main reason I want to do a UB is because I found a weld on cup the other day to make the rear axle a UB also so that means only needing to carry one spare

The adapter I built was manly so you could reuse a standard length stub. The 05+ UB wont bolt to the knuckle, and it has a much larger bore and pattern on the back. It might be possible to machine the knuckle to accept the larger UB, but not sure what that would change, as far as strength. The 05+ UB is also very shallow. If you bolted it directly, you would likely have to run some very custom brake setup. The SD knuckles are cast with the deeper mounting area, to offset the UB and create space for the brakes.

I dont know what axle you are running, but I had the same thoughts. My plan was to build a 05+ axle and sell my older one to offset it. Or cut the currently knuckles off, and weld on SD outers.

sfickett · Jan 29, 2023

paradisepwoffrd said:
The adapter I built was manly so you could reuse a standard length stub. The 05+ UB wont bolt to the knuckle, and it has a much larger bore and pattern on the back. It might be possible to machine the knuckle to accept the larger UB, but not sure what that would change, as far as strength. The 05+ UB is also very shallow. If you bolted it directly, you would likely have to run some very custom brake setup. The SD knuckles are cast with the deeper mounting area, to offset the UB and create space for the brakes.

I dont know what axle you are running, but I had the same thoughts. My plan was to build a 05+ axle and sell my older one to offset it. Or cut the currently knuckles off, and weld on SD outers.

Oh yes, I see it now I forgot the 05+ knuckles have a big snout on them
To push the bearing farther out. I have have an old 99 ub I kept for trying this I'll have to actually hold and measure the 05+ it's definitely something I'll keep in mind and keep thinking about. Thanks for all the info. Definitely gave me a head start on thinking about it.