2pwrlftrs4u
NWW Meanie
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Help Support Hardline Crawlers :
3/4 elliptical
- Thread starter 2pwrlftrs4u
- Start date
Binder
Well-Known Member
IMHO it's a bad idea. Lots of guys have done this before but I would not.
crash2
-Oh no I picked a side-
Ran it for a long time with great results--the only thing is "do a track bar" to keep the housing from wanting to walk forward when it droops
pbmcauliffe
Well-Known Member
Ran it about six years ago on a cj5 in the front, added some flex, but when I rebuilt the rig I went back to custom mix leaf packs and was much happier. They are kinda like revolvers without the twisting.
2pwrlftrs4u
NWW Meanie
Binder said:
just wanted to see if anyone here has wheeled this mod. looks very "unsafe" to me.
Money Mark
Well-Known Member
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The instability of that set-up is NOT worth the couple extra inches of suspension flex it would provide.
Traction is how you gain forward progress, not suspension flex.
I think vehicle WB would be the deciding factor.
My .02
Traction is how you gain forward progress, not suspension flex.
I think vehicle WB would be the deciding factor.
My .02
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crash2
-Oh no I picked a side-
ToyBug said:
Yes--on a longer WB rig they are more stable and also what diff you have plays a role in it hench more weight on the ground..
2pwrlftrs4u
NWW Meanie
pbmcauliffe said:
was looking into those as well....
out of the two which do you like best. the CJ is not a DD any longer so i am looking to gain some more flex. its still SUA and has shackle reversal.
crash2
-Oh no I picked a side-
2pwrlftrs4u said:
All revolvers should be thrown away....
pbmcauliffe
Well-Known Member
2pwrlftrs4u said:
I personally never ran the revolvers, but the drop away idea is the same principal. The couple of friends that did run the revolvers took them off after a few runs. Some have had good luck with revolvers, but most of the people I know remove them do to handling problems.
2pwrlftrs4u
NWW Meanie
crash said:
crash right now i am thinking about SOA in Dec but looking at other options. guess i am a little apprehensive about jumping into the SOA by my self :redneck:
Cascade_Crawler
Well-Known Member
2pwrlftrs4u said:
I did it and I'm 17. Which means I think I know everything but actually I'm as dumb as a stump
:flipoff:Dear group;
I would like to have an opinion here, if I may. First, the 3/4 epi setup is both good and bad. it can get you some extra flex for low $$$ but the other issues that you are very likely to run into makes it a risky proposition most times. As Crash stated, the axle wanting to walk forward is a big issue and also axle wrapping can increase when one side is flexed out and the other side is stuffed. There are other ways a person can gain flex without having to go the 3/4 epi route, IMHO.
Next, revolver shackles. I like them but NOT because they allow the axles to have lots of dropout, I like them because they take the torsional loading off of the spring eyes and thus they help lengthen the life of the mainsprings. Also, they help the spring eye bushings and with revolvers your bushings will last much longer. Again, because of the inherent problems associated with Revolvers there are better solutions to the problem.
I am not trying to paint a bleak picture, merely remind folks that you can't get something for nothing. There are many ways to get awesome flex from leafpacks without using 3/4 epi setups or revolver shackles, but you will have to be willing to put forth the effort.
Now here are some secrets direct from The Lord of the Leaves himself to help you get awesome articulation from leafpacks, my friend. First, remove the idea from your brain that you can get awesome articulation from gimmicks or bolt on stuff, like revolvers or 3/4 epi springs. All of the other periphial tasks which you will need to accomplish in order to make these things work reasonably well are daunting and so you may as well do everything right in the first place.
OK, the big question is, how can you get more flex from a setpacks? The answer is simple. To increase articulation from a set of leafpacks you need to increase the eye to eye distance of the mainleaf. In other words, you need to make the leafpack longer. It's the same thing with those nasty evil c**lsprings folks. If you want more flex from a c**l setup you first need longer control arms. It's exactly the same concept with leafpacks. C**lspring suspensions use control arms to keep the axle properly located under the rig and the c**lspring to control the upward/downward motion of the axle, whereas leafsprings control the axle motion of the axle and keep the axle located by using only the leafpacks.
Building or buying longer leafpacks will get you more articulation, period. they have to, because the longer the leafpack is, the further it's able to articulate. The problem is the chassis where the leafpack mounts to. In order to install longer leafpacks, first you need to relocate the spring eye hangers and the shackle hangers. the spring eye hangers are no problem because they are located on the center part of the chassis and they can be moved closer to each other quite a large amount. The problem is at the other end, where the shackle mount goes. The shackle mounts are usually located very close to the terminal end of the chassis and so, extending the mounts can be difficult, however there are 2 possible solutions to this problem.
First, you can lengthen the chassis however may not be the best solution because it also affects the approach/departure angle and building extensions for a chassis is a time consuming and labor intensive project.
Second, you can relocate the spring hanger mounts to the point where they are touching each other in the center of the chassis and then custom bend leafpacks with an offset. This is generally the best course of action in most cases(and the cheapest), however it is very rarely seen on modern rigs because most people haven't taken the time to study the problem, therefore they automatically gravitate towards a c**lspring setup, mistakenly thinking that c**lsprings give more articulation.
Your friend;
LAMAR
I would like to have an opinion here, if I may. First, the 3/4 epi setup is both good and bad. it can get you some extra flex for low $$$ but the other issues that you are very likely to run into makes it a risky proposition most times. As Crash stated, the axle wanting to walk forward is a big issue and also axle wrapping can increase when one side is flexed out and the other side is stuffed. There are other ways a person can gain flex without having to go the 3/4 epi route, IMHO.
Next, revolver shackles. I like them but NOT because they allow the axles to have lots of dropout, I like them because they take the torsional loading off of the spring eyes and thus they help lengthen the life of the mainsprings. Also, they help the spring eye bushings and with revolvers your bushings will last much longer. Again, because of the inherent problems associated with Revolvers there are better solutions to the problem.
I am not trying to paint a bleak picture, merely remind folks that you can't get something for nothing. There are many ways to get awesome flex from leafpacks without using 3/4 epi setups or revolver shackles, but you will have to be willing to put forth the effort.
Now here are some secrets direct from The Lord of the Leaves himself to help you get awesome articulation from leafpacks, my friend. First, remove the idea from your brain that you can get awesome articulation from gimmicks or bolt on stuff, like revolvers or 3/4 epi springs. All of the other periphial tasks which you will need to accomplish in order to make these things work reasonably well are daunting and so you may as well do everything right in the first place.
OK, the big question is, how can you get more flex from a setpacks? The answer is simple. To increase articulation from a set of leafpacks you need to increase the eye to eye distance of the mainleaf. In other words, you need to make the leafpack longer. It's the same thing with those nasty evil c**lsprings folks. If you want more flex from a c**l setup you first need longer control arms. It's exactly the same concept with leafpacks. C**lspring suspensions use control arms to keep the axle properly located under the rig and the c**lspring to control the upward/downward motion of the axle, whereas leafsprings control the axle motion of the axle and keep the axle located by using only the leafpacks.
Building or buying longer leafpacks will get you more articulation, period. they have to, because the longer the leafpack is, the further it's able to articulate. The problem is the chassis where the leafpack mounts to. In order to install longer leafpacks, first you need to relocate the spring eye hangers and the shackle hangers. the spring eye hangers are no problem because they are located on the center part of the chassis and they can be moved closer to each other quite a large amount. The problem is at the other end, where the shackle mount goes. The shackle mounts are usually located very close to the terminal end of the chassis and so, extending the mounts can be difficult, however there are 2 possible solutions to this problem.
First, you can lengthen the chassis however may not be the best solution because it also affects the approach/departure angle and building extensions for a chassis is a time consuming and labor intensive project.
Second, you can relocate the spring hanger mounts to the point where they are touching each other in the center of the chassis and then custom bend leafpacks with an offset. This is generally the best course of action in most cases(and the cheapest), however it is very rarely seen on modern rigs because most people haven't taken the time to study the problem, therefore they automatically gravitate towards a c**lspring setup, mistakenly thinking that c**lsprings give more articulation.
Your friend;
LAMAR
2pwrlftrs4u
NWW Meanie
thanks lamar.... i do have longer than stock CJ springs. i am using YJ springs, BDS 4" lift springs which do flex good esp since i am still SUA. 'prolly will let you guys talk me into the SOA 
Dear 2pwrlftrs4u;
Your choice of scrapping the stock style CJ springs in favor of the wider YJ springs is good, IMHO. There is a cutoff point where a person should consider going SOA and I personally feel that point is 35" tires on SWB Jeeps. going SOA will allow your rig to ride somewhat softer and of course there is the increase in lift which you get, however in order to do a proper SOA there are a lot of other considerations.
First, you will obviously need to relocate the perches. On some front differentials this is a snap and on others it takes some creativity in order to accomplish the task. Next, you will need longer bumpstops, shocks, brakelines and shock towers. Also, driveline angle is something to be considered. For an SOA a dropped pitman arm is a must and I feel that hysteer is also highly beneficial as well.
Axle wrapping is always a major issue with SOAed rear diffs but there are a myriad of solutions so it's mostly a matter of choosing the best anti-wrap setup for your particular requirements.
if you already have 4" lift springs and you decide to go SOA with stock height springs then most of the associated issues should already be resolved. I prefer SOA to SUA and once you get used to different handling characteristics you will most likely prefer SOA as well.
Your friend;
LAMAR
Your choice of scrapping the stock style CJ springs in favor of the wider YJ springs is good, IMHO. There is a cutoff point where a person should consider going SOA and I personally feel that point is 35" tires on SWB Jeeps. going SOA will allow your rig to ride somewhat softer and of course there is the increase in lift which you get, however in order to do a proper SOA there are a lot of other considerations.
First, you will obviously need to relocate the perches. On some front differentials this is a snap and on others it takes some creativity in order to accomplish the task. Next, you will need longer bumpstops, shocks, brakelines and shock towers. Also, driveline angle is something to be considered. For an SOA a dropped pitman arm is a must and I feel that hysteer is also highly beneficial as well.
Axle wrapping is always a major issue with SOAed rear diffs but there are a myriad of solutions so it's mostly a matter of choosing the best anti-wrap setup for your particular requirements.
if you already have 4" lift springs and you decide to go SOA with stock height springs then most of the associated issues should already be resolved. I prefer SOA to SUA and once you get used to different handling characteristics you will most likely prefer SOA as well.
Your friend;
LAMAR
I 've ran them on my toy for 5 yrs. Never broke one. They do flex, but I run ranger leafs in the rear and by themselves they work well. My only complaint is that they do unload @ a certain point and you will be looking @ the world sideways when it happens.
2pwrlftrs4u
NWW Meanie
Lamar said:
yes i have been studying the SOA fore 2 years now.... have seen everything from exended perches, half leaves and track bars to fight the wrap. i have a D44 with flat tops so hi-steer down the road will happen. when i do this i am going to use stock YJ's or the RE 1.5" lift springs. i also would like to move the real axle back a few inches (front is moved fwd 3" already).
pinion angle ...think i will be OK setting that up. i will do some cutting on the rear so i will have room to go to 38's from 36's
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