9inch Axles

[Cole]

With all the talk of light weight buggies with 9" axles I am curious how strong they really are.
Will a 9" live up to Rock Bouncing? I know Greg Stone killed his True HI9 a couple of times and has swaped it out for a Low Pinion 9". I am interested to see how it lives behind the new LS1 Stroker.
Whenever I have a buggy built I will be using either a Spider Nine or Diamond housing hopefully.
I would hate to spend all that money then have to worry about it breaking.
Just curious and looking for opinions. I know there are other people interested in this also.

 

[wngrog]

www.Sunrayengineering.com

"Why a 9"

Although the basic bigger is better and size matters points are still strong arguments in the wheeling community, there is more to the Ford 9" than its size. The pinion is larger than the standard Dana 60, and that fact alone means more strength and less chance of damage. The Ford 9" ring gear is also thicker (although smaller in diameter) than the Dana 60 ring gear, which again, means more strength and less worry. Ground clearance is another advantage to a 9", and a shaved 9" has even greater clearance, Click here to see a comparison. Go to any NHRA, SCORE, NASCAR, or Local dirt track event and look under the rear of all of the vehicles. There is a reason drag racers and hotrod enthusiasts alike have trusted the Ford 9" for years, and here are a few of them.
Note: despite its size, the Ford 9" system is lighter than the Dana system.

On comparison of the pinions one of the first things you will notice is the additional pinion support extending from (in this picture) the lower end of the pinion. This feature helps reduce the level of stress on the pinion.
Note: the Ford 9" pinion enters the ring gear at a lower point, which also provides better strength and stability than the standard Dana 60.

The angle of the teeth on the Ford 9" pinion is at a greater degree than that of the Dana series. This creates a larger contact area on the ring gear and greater tooth engagement; the area that stress is divided over is larger which means less stress on any particular area.

The main caps in the differential are another strong point of the Ford 9" system. They are the main link between the differential and the case on a Ford 9", or the housing and the case on a Dana. Notice the difference in size and structure between the cast iron of the Dana and the forged steel of the Ford 9" main cap.

The modular design of the Ford 9" is an often overlooked advantage. The main caps on a Dana design are an integrated part of the entire axle housing. This means that if a Dana main cap fails, the whole housing becomes worthless. The Ford drop out 3rd member (pictured below) contains the ring and pinion and the differential held in by the main caps. If the main cap fails you can replace the 3rd member and you are back on the trail.

 

[BamaTJ]

Seeing that they are in most of the comp rigs being built today means a lot to me. The nodular housings from Spider and Diamond seem to be the NORM these days in both WE ROck and XRRA. I feel for light buggies they are a perfect compliment

 

[rock mafia]

They hold up under 1000+ hp drag cars. Greg used to always talk about taking it easy. Since he got the LP 9 he says he's gonna beat on before he leaves.

There's been quite a bit of this action since we put it in, he would have broke a pile of hi9's by now.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R5JoStve_0

 

[wngrog]

One of the main things about a building a 9" is having a good Jig and alignment bar. When you weld on an axle that is 2 tubes that are welded into a fabricated housing, the lack of the structure of the Dana/Corporate gear housing gives it a high tendency of warpage.

You must have a good alignment tool to fabricate link mounts and truss' to the 9" housing or it will warp and it will put undo stress on the components and leak.

I buy all of my 9" stuff from Moser. The price is right, they ship in 24 hours and according to Tom the 71 year old 10 time NHRA Champion, they make the best 3rd members on the market.

Greg Stone got some Moser axles and has been beating the poo out of them and life is good so far. Every Moser axle I have had has gotten a slight swist in the splines though. Tom calls that work-hardening and says that is fine. I agree since I have been running them now for almost 8 years and have not broken one. That said, I used to wheel with all the Sunray guys all the time and their Jeeps were mostly big V8, full body, 5000# jobs and I never saw a 9" semi-float axle shaft break.

For Rock bouncing, I would upgrade to 3/8" tubes and truss it like a desert car and ALWAYS run a LP 3rd in the rear. Hi9's are awesome for low HP rigs and crawling with finesse or the front. I have one in the front of my new rig. LP9's are made to rockbounce. YOu wont be let down.

 

[wngrog]

Oh, I forgot to ad...my last 9" with the AL 3rd and spool with explorer disc brakes was only 201# wet.

 

[Cole]

For Rock bouncing, I would upgrade to 3/8" tubes and truss it like a desert car and ALWAYS run a LP 3rd in the rear. Hi9's are awesome for low HP rigs and crawling with finesse or the front. I have one in the front of my new rig. LP9's are made to rockbounce. YOu wont be let down.

Thats what I thought, good to hear it.
So a Hi9 front is alot stronger than the rear's?

 

[BamaTJ]

Yeah a HI9 and any HP application for that matter will fair better in the front because they ride on the drive side of the gear instead of the coast. In the back the opposite is true, LP's are stronger because they ride on the drive side. The TN boys are tearing up R&P in the Chevy LP 60 Front's, but they would probably fair better if they were running the HP Ford 60's. I have seen or heard of 10+ HI-9's or HP60 rears breaking R&P's in the last year or so. They are just not designed to run in the rear of high hp rigs. HP front, LP rear is the way to go

 

[GStone]

We went to a comp this past weekend in SC, after it was over we went "rockbouncing". This place had verticle hill climbs with several close to 90degree rock ledges in them. I launched up them several times and landed on nothing but the rear tires with the front end in the air, never let out of the gas, nothing broke.We did this for hours, trying every climb that they said "no one had ever made". Pretty much everyone watching was ready to go buy a 9"... the hi9 in the front would be the poo...I'll have one for sale very soon.

 

[wngrog]

We went to a comp this past weekend in SC, after it was over we went "rockbouncing". This place had verticle hill climbs with several close to 90degree rock ledges in them. I launched up them several times and landed on nothing but the rear tires with the front end in the air, never let out of the gas, nothing broke.We did this for hours, trying every climb that they said "no one had ever made". Pretty much everyone watching was ready to go buy a 9"... the hi9 in the front would be the poo...I'll have one for sale very soon.

I am really stoked that you got your issues worked out.

Did you notice the busted pinions on both the Lovell Ranger and Dean Bulloch's rigs at KOH? The Hi9 has its place and it is in the front or in a low HP rig in the rear.

My new axles have Semi Float 9" Moser axles in the rear with a low pinion Moser 3rd running a spool. The front has a Hi9 with Detroit. I may trade that for a spool before I pick it up. I enjoy the simplicity of a spool.

 

[Woodlee]

Unless the HP 60 has a bigger pinion shaft then they wouldn't be benefiting from going to HP.They are breaking the pinion shaft in two pieces like you guys saw pics of the Nasty Bucket. Brian Cole and Trent Lee both broke them last weekend this way. All the power we are putting in these buggies is insane and there are some growing pains to go with it. I am very interested to see how Greg's buggy dose with this new stroker motor.

 

[BamaTJ]

I thought they were breaking ring gears. Pinion shafts is a whole diff story, that is fawking insane!

 

[GStone]

Unless the HP 60 has a bigger pinion shaft then they wouldn't be benefiting from going to HP.

Are they running 35spline pinions? You can get them for a 60.

 

[Woodlee]

No they aren't running the 35 spline versions. They have had teeth failure and shaft failure. Brian is going to go ahead and build a few 14 bolt fronts I believe.