Best way to run rear steer

dodgecrawler2011 · Jan 28, 2014

Have a buddy on rockwells. Is putting a steer in the rear now. He's running a stock Saginaw pump for the front seems to do ok. HAs a spool valve for the rear. We are both a little lost on what route to go with it. One pump? Or mount another Saginaw style pump to feed the spool valve.

Elliott · Jan 28, 2014

Your going to need a second pump for it to work right and just get a 2" or 2 1/2" cylinder, I have psc's 3" and they are to big, it makes them slow.

John Galbreath Jr. · Jan 28, 2014

Here is your hose diagram with one pump. Realize that with one pump you can only really steer one end at a time. But I have done it this way for years. On Solo Buggy, we did go to a second pump. But, I rarely use both at the same time due to old habits.

http://howeperformance.com/pdfs/rockcrawlrearsteer.pdf

and

http://www.pscmotorsports.com/pdf/tech/install/full_hydraulic_front-rear.pdf

Elliott · Jan 28, 2014

John, you got me thinking wonder if you could tie two pumps together to speed up a system?

John Galbreath Jr. · Jan 28, 2014

Elliott said:
John, you got me thinking wonder if you could tie two pumps together to speed up a system?

That is a question I would pose to Lance at PSC. Knows his stuff.

My gut says no, as they would work against each other.

dodgecrawler2011 · Jan 28, 2014

JohnG said:
Here is your hose diagram with one pump. Realize that with one pump you can only really steer one end at a time. But I have done it this way for years. On Solo Buggy, we did go to a second pump. But, I rarely use both at the same time due to old habits.

http://howeperformance.com/pdfs/rockcrawlrearsteer.pdf

and

http://www.pscmotorsports.com/pdf/tech/install/full_hydraulic_front-rear.pdf

you answered my question on the one pump deal. Guess I'll talk him into two pumps

b.boyd · Jan 28, 2014

Elliott said:
John, you got me thinking wonder if you could tie two pumps together to speed up a system?

Search on pirate. I remembering seeing a thread with two pumps tied together being used ;but, IMO very unecessary.

.I am like John G , one P pump, routed through a electric solenoid directional valve to work back and front. I have run both of the one pump just fine for many years. Quite simple and effective.

TBItoy · Jan 28, 2014

Re: Re: Re: Best way to run rear steer

Elliott said:
John, you got me thinking wonder if you could tie two pumps together to speed up a system?

You can. Just T the pressure lines and returns

Rockwells607 · Jan 28, 2014

Me and a buddy have rear steer rocks with electric over hydraulic pumps, they work ok and are nice that they are two selecta systems from the motor, however the performance is slower and they draw slot of electric, my jeep is just a crawler so it works just fine but if ya want something faster I'm thinkin two pumps is the way to go, I also rarely use the front and back at the same time, it's a manual tranny and there's way to many levers and pedals to doing all at high speed lol

dodgecrawler2011 · Jan 28, 2014

When u say at the same time. Do you mean it wont steer at all or only steer until it runs outa fluid

John Galbreath Jr. · Jan 28, 2014

dodgecrawler2011 said:
When u say at the same time. Do you mean it wont steer at all or only steer until it runs outa fluid

If you are on smooth road, you can steer both. But, you do not have enough to steer both when you need it with one pump. However, really not an issue. You are only talking about delaying one end 5 seconds or so. You get used to it. Steer one, then the other. I am actually having trouble breaking the habit, but I have been running a one pump system since 2004.

dodgecrawler2011 · Jan 28, 2014

JohnG said:
If you are on smooth road, you can steer both. But, you do not have enough to steer both when you need it with one pump. However, really not an issue. You are only talking about delaying one end 5 seconds or so. You get used to it. Steer one, then the other. I am actually having trouble breaking the habit, but I have been running a one pump system since 2004.

exactly what I was wondering. Thank you much.

b.boyd · Jan 29, 2014

Actually if you get skilled enough you can release the rear joystick and immediately steer the front or hold steering wheel where you want and go back to steering the rear.I would agree that is very easy to get used to. Kinda like getting used to hydro steering from regular steering.

fordcontraption01 · Jan 29, 2014

Two pumps is the way to go that's what I got on my main rig and my spare has the electric pump on it and I'm used to fast steering and the electric just don't have any speed in my opinion

b.boyd · Jan 29, 2014

fordcontraption01 said:
Two pumps is the way to go that's what I got on my main rig and my spare has the electric pump on it and I'm used to fast steering and the electric just don't have any speed in my opinion

When you say "electric pump" it sounds like you are talking about a 12V power pak hydro pump which is slow and heavy. Not the same thing that I am talking about. Probably same goes for JohnG.

What is being labeled as electric by myself and likely John G, is an electric solenoid valve which is a fancier version of a spool valve. It is an electric divider valve. It fits in your hand, weighs about 2lbs and diverts the fluid to the rear steering ports when activated. What is nice about it, is that you can mount it anywhere so that the hydraulic lines are not next to you like a traditional spool valve. So that is a nice safety feature. As for the electric component, it is simply a hot wire connected to the joystick and runs to the solenoids from the joystick to activate the solenoids to open or close. Runs on a 3 amp in line fuse to give you an idea on the current draw. The divider turns the back tires as fast as the front as It uses the pressure and flow of the steering pump on the engine block, which is hopefully a p pump, can move the hydraulic fluid just like the hydro steering on the front of a vehicle with only front steering . Hence, a two pump system is limited by the same factors, the flow and pressure of the engine mounted pump.

As mentioned earlier, by both myself and John G, a two pump system is really not necessarily "needed" except for probably a select few who race..

Rokcrler · Jan 29, 2014

Re:

JJ showed me this thread when I inquired about rear steer valves.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-4x4-discussion/1105360-rear-steer-solenoid-valves.html

b.boyd · Jan 29, 2014

Re:

Rokcrler said:
JJ showed me this thread when I inquired about rear steer valves.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-4x4-discussion/1105360-rear-steer-solenoid-valves.html

Unfortunately JJs pic is no longer current of what he had ;but, it was the same as mine which I have attached a picture of mine . The rest of the divider valves in that thread are different types of type 3 electric divider solenoid valves. All of which are simple and cost efficient. Also, attached picture of joystick mounted away from divider valve.

dodgecrawler2011 · Jan 29, 2014

Now with that answered how much harder will the stock pump have to work.

alanevans10 · Jan 29, 2014

JohnG said:
Here is your hose diagram with one pump. Realize that with one pump you can only really steer one end at a time. But I have done it this way for years. On Solo Buggy, we did go to a second pump. But, I rarely use both at the same time due to old habits.

http://howeperformance.com/pdfs/rockcrawlrearsteer.pdf

and

http://www.pscmotorsports.com/pdf/tech/install/full_hydraulic_front-rear.pdf

John, do you have any pictures of how you got your second pump mounted on the motor?

John Galbreath Jr. · Jan 29, 2014

alanevans10 said:
John, do you have any pictures of how you got your second pump mounted on the motor?

My setup is v-belt. The second pump is a serpentine off the crank. Here is the pulley:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/asp-541000/overview/

Adam Woodlee of Wide Open Design did it for me. I suggest you contact him for the pump and bracket.

As for pictures, I can try. But it is pretty crowded in that area.