Buggy building order of preference?

[Hip]

OK i have been collecting parts and stuff to build my own buggy based on a 53 whillys title.

I started with the drive train and thats now complete (mostly).

Then i designed my chassis in my head and drew it on the garage floor full size both plan and elevation view.

Collected the front and rear end, both are at install size, knuckles are loose on the front for caster at final assembly.

I just started making the chassis and have the main lower portion (frame) built.

So i set the chassis in place and realized i might want to think things out a little more.

My plan was gonna be build the chassis around the completed drive train. Now im thinking i should complete the rolling chassis with links and axels in place. then mount seats then place the drivetrain where it will fit best clearing links driveshafts etc...

i was also thinking it would sure fit a lot better if i place the drivetrain off set to the passenger side about 1 or 2 inches?? the driveshaft for the front is driver side.

So i have the following questions about order of preference:

Option 1) Best to make rolling chassis and place drivetrain where it fits best or?

Option 2) Build the drivetrain in and then put everything else where it fits best?

Can the drivetrain be offset and how much without destroying the rear driveshaft?

Overall how much room did you need to put all the stuff in front of the engine? fan,radiator,tranny cooler, steering cooler, winch, grille?

 

[Pook]

If its a custom chassis just for you, sounds like it...then go with option 2.

If your building the rig low with hardly any vertical driveshaft angles than offsetting stuff is not a big deal. Its just an angle to the ujoints, just make sure your not going to over do the angles on droop, compression and flex.

Also build the rig at full stuff and try and push the motor back as far as you can. That will help with balancing the rig and give you room for all the stuff you need to fit in front.

 

[Hip]

yes custom made for me by me.... never done anything like this before, i always modified something existing.

my only issue is drivetrain length as i am using a doubler. Drivetrain is 4.3L CPI Vortec, TH 350 203/205 the farther i push it all back the shorter the rear DS.

i guess i can go electric fan and gain a few more inches.

Thanks for the info Pook.

 

[Bunk1]

If i was to do it again i would build a roller and then make the drivetrain fit. I ran into alot of issues by fitting the drivetrain first.

 

[Hip]

that almost a direct quote from Dustin Webster on the pirate board....

**** that means im farther away than i thought. i dont have the money for the rest of the stuff i need first.

hum maybe ill get a new car construction loan?

damn johnnie joints are expensive....

:awesomework:

 

[Not Jobless]

You can't build a "complete system" (buggy) thinking about only a single element at any one point in time...it all has to work in harmony or you're destined to come up very short somewhere.

Gather everything you need/want and figure out how it's all going to work together.

 

[Hip]

yeah that what i was thinking as i was sitting in my shop staring at it. it was too hot to work on anything so i just sat and thought what comes next. thinking of all the things that need to come together. then i just decided ill put the engine here and go from there. so i placed everything in place and just came up with more and more what about this????

then i went and sat in front of the fan and surfed around. this is the consensus to build the rolling chassis then start packing stuff into it.

of course the proffessionals have done it enough times they just plan everything based off their last one and learning curve is well established.

guess that technology is part of paying for a rollling chassis.

 

[Not Jobless]

yeah that what i was thinking as i was sitting in my shop staring at it. it was too hot to work on anything so i just sat and thought what comes next. thinking of all the things that need to come together. then i just decided ill put the engine here and go from there. so i placed everything in place and just came up with more and more what about this????

then i went and sat in front of the fan and surfed around. this is the consensus to build the rolling chassis then start packing stuff into it.

of course the proffessionals have done it enough times they just plan everything based off their last one and learning curve is well established.

guess that technology is part of paying for a rollling chassis.

S&N sells chassis only :awesomework:

Give's you lots to do with making everything else "just fit" :redneck:

 

[Pook]

I guess I should clarify what I meant by going option 2.

You have fixed dimensions with the drive train your using. Tubing etc can be moved around to make things fit. Certian things take up a certian amount of space. Seats, headroom, etc. it is definetly a whole package, and certian things are just sized the way they are.

Figure out what you want the rig for, what you want it to do, etc. Figure out what your willing to sacrifice to get what you want. No rig can do everything super. Do you want it to be low and super stable on big climbs/sidehills and drops, or do you want belly clearance and height for the mud and boulder fields? Do you need storage room for camping, do you want to go 100mph through the desert and jump off dunes? Do you want to be shoulder to shoulder with your pasenger or do you want a little bit of elbow room.

Figure out what you want for a wheelbase, belly pan height, roof height etc. Make sure you give yourself enough head height etc.


Take a look at other chassis people are selling a lot of them give measurments, that will give you a rough idea if what your thinking is in the right ballpark #'s wise.

A generic sized chassis to fit anybodies combo of parts is a compromise of different things to make a multiple # of combos of parts fit.

here is a good example of starting with your drivetrain...
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=610875&highlight=lovell

a very nice looking rig and its winning comps if you care about that stuff.

 

[Pat]

You can't build a "complete system" (buggy) thinking about only a single element at any one point in time...it all has to work in harmony or you're destined to come up very short somewhere.

Gather everything you need/want and figure out how it's all going to work together.

This is exactly what I realized after starting my own buggy design. Everything affects everything else. After spending hours on autocad I am still a long, long ways from a design I would feel comfortable throwing money at. In fact the design process made me realize just how many variables there are and I put the whole project on hold for a few years (also I'm young and need more experience and $$$). If you have access to any sort of CAD software I would recommend it because it can save trial and error headaches. Even then with everything drawn out there are still unknown factors like weight which affects suspension design, which affects chassis design, which affects drivetrain placement, etc.

 

[PORTER]

S&N sells chassis only :awesomework:

Give's you lots to do with making everything else "just fit" :redneck:

This is the route I took(bought it as a roller), and I will tell ya to save yourself alot of hassle and buy a chassis from them and start assembling. Their prices are pretty resonable, especially for what you get. If you want to build your own chassis cool, but there is alot to it as well as time involved. And then there is suspension to build which is really what seperates a good rig from a great one. Good luck.:beer:

 

[82toyomud]

If you have access to any sort of CAD software I would recommend it because it can save trial and error headaches. Even then with everything drawn out there are still unknown factors like weight which affects suspension design, which affects chassis design, which affects drivetrain placement, etc.

This is not true... If you can get ahold of solidworks or ProE, you can dictate what you materials are, and they can give you pretty much all your weights... Hell, solidworks pukes out the CG, and roll centers for our baja... Given it wasn't right, but it was pretty dang close... And i do believe it was only off by about 5% on the overall weight of the car... pretty good if you ask me...

 

[82toyomud]

Oh, and now you guys know how engineer's feel:looser:

 

[Pat]

This is not true... If you can get ahold of solidworks or ProE, you can dictate what you materials are, and they can give you pretty much all your weights... Hell, solidworks pukes out the CG, and roll centers for our baja... Given it wasn't right, but it was pretty dang close... And i do believe it was only off by about 5% on the overall weight of the car... pretty good if you ask me...

Thats

The paradox of finding the CG was one of my biggest headscratchers, you need to know where it is before you can know where its gonna go.:haha:

Before I start in on my project again I might have to pick up solidworks.:awesomework:

 

[82toyomud]

Thats

The paradox of finding the CG was one of my biggest headscratchers, you need to know where it is before you can know where its gonna go.:haha:

Before I start in on my project again I might have to pick up solidworks.:awesomework:

Well, be prepared to fork out some $$$... Its not cheap, and it takes a pretty good sized computer to run it good...

 

[Hip]

well for me, this time, its the build im after.

im almost retired. been dreaming of building a rig from the ground up since my first mustang when i was 16. i cant really go anywhere till my mom is at the next level so i have plenty of time...

the chassis is well on its way, im just rethinking the order of things

thanks for all the comments though.:awesomework:

 

[ZedMikey]

Well, be prepared to fork out some $$$... Its not cheap, and it takes a pretty good sized computer to run it good...

He did say "pick up." That doesn't necessarily mean buy. But Solidworks isn't near as expensive as ProE or Inventor, especially if you can find a way to get a student version.

On the 3D modeling topic, making a 3D model of your components wouldn't be too hard (you don't need much detail for this sort of thing). With software like Solidworks, ProE, Inventor, etc., manipulating components to check fit, placement, etc. is quick and easy. If I ever find the time to build the chassis I want to build for my CJ7, I will definitely start with a 3D model.