Can we play the game "Name this Locker"?

mountainexplorer · Dec 25, 2009

This was a mystery from 3 years ago that I had never gotten solved as for a definite answer.

To the left, is a GM 14-bolt Full Floater Detroit Locker. On the right, we have the mystery locker, removed out of the exact same type of rear axle.

The one to the right has some subtle differences, some of which you can pick out in the pictures, but overall, they look very similar.

Everyone I've talked to, or at least the majority thought it was a Detroit but couldn't explain these differences, other than possibly thinking it was an "older" version or model. However, I have a 1967 GM Eaton Rear axle with a factory Detroit Locker in it and it looks identical to the normal 14-bolt Detroit shown on the left with the external springs. So, in my mind, since the Detroits manufactured in the 80's and 90s through today also look like the unit on the left, and appearantly so did the old ones starting back in the 1960's... well, what is this??

It has no part number, no stampings or markings. It acts like a Detroit locker as for replacing the spider gears in an open carrier. I have not taken it apart to look inside or as to the internal parts and components. Any input is appreciated! I've had it sitting on a shelf for 3 years not wanting to put it into a Blazer I have until I had actually figured out what it was. (That and the Blazers not together anyways), but I hope someone may know what it is.

WHITE TRASH1 · Dec 25, 2009

Looks like a lock right to me.

Fordzuki · Dec 25, 2009

Definately not a lock right. Some kind of cheap knock off of a detroit maybe?

mountainexplorer · Dec 25, 2009

Thing is, what were the knock off of Detroits? I'm just not aware of who made them and what they are called. I know Yukon just came out with the "Grizzly" locker, but even it looks different than this, and to my knowledge, this was in a truck in the 14-bolts for quite a few years before Yukon made them.

zukkev · Dec 25, 2009

Could it possibly be a Detroit out of GM's earlier Eaton rear end???

mountainexplorer · Dec 25, 2009

I removed it from a GM 14-bolt full floater. I had thought it was an earlier version of Detroit, similar to the Eaton ones. But I have a 1967 eaton rear end with a factory Detroit, plus a couple other Eaton Detroits and they look identical to the normal Detroit shown on the left in the pictures, with the external spring. Just the spline count is different.

I would have assumed if this locker to the right was one of the first early 14-bolt Detroit lockers perhaps manufactured in the 70's when GM introduced the 14-bolt that it would have features just like the Eaton Detroits. But that's not the case. It has the same external differences in appearance from the early Eaton ones as the normal aftermarket 14-bolt ones including the CUCV Detroits.

zukkev · Dec 25, 2009

Well, it could have been a very early production run of the now well known 14B Detroit...Might be worth a call to confirm, but I don't know of any locker that hasn't made a change in design not too long after they were first introduced...

WHITE TRASH1 · Dec 25, 2009

Fordzuki said:
Definately not a lock right. Some kind of cheap knock off of a detroit maybe?

Yup, now that I've had more time to search the images I see that now. Damned thing still looks like a lockright though. :eeek:

What is the spline count?

Fordzuki · Dec 25, 2009

mountainexplorer said:
Thing is, what were the knock off of Detroits? I'm just not aware of who made them and what they are called. I know Yukon just came out with the "Grizzly" locker, but even it looks different than this, and to my knowledge, this was in a truck in the 14-bolts for quite a few years before Yukon made them.

That brings up a good point that none of the other lockers look anywhere close to a detroit. They all have they're own distinct look to them, so I'd say it would almost have to be detroit. Who knows, maybe Detroit slipped a couple "experiments" into the market over the years. :corn:

zukkev · Dec 25, 2009

Where's Digger 5 when ya need him:scratchhead:...He'd know whether it's a Detroit or not!

mountainexplorer · Dec 25, 2009

It was in a GM 14-bolt in a 1978 Suburban. I pulled it out and swapped stock spiders back into it and got rid of it. It's splined the same as the Detroit shown next to it (stock GM 14-bolt shafts), not like the Eatons. But again, the Eaton Detroits I have look different than this mystery one, and the Eaton Detroits (except for spline count) look like the actual Detroit on the left and not like the one on the right.

It's funny cause 3 years ago I posted this one some other boards as well, and there was alot of debate but I never even got a definite answer then either, it just has remained a mystery. Just got to thinking about it again the other day. Even some friends I have who do alot of gear work and axle work haven't been able to give me a definite answer as to what it is other than a Detroit that looks a little different.

Detroit Locker's most common version is the ones referred to as the "No-Spin" locker... but they offer an "E-Z Locker" as well don't they? I wonder if that's what this is, I just cant find info if they offer this version for a GM 14-bolt full floater.

Digger 5 · Dec 26, 2009

It looks like a Detroit (AKA No-Spin) to me. There have been model changes over the years that have made subtle differences in the appearance.
The unit on the right is (obviously) not complete as it has no springs or spring retention plates. On the right unit, you can see that the clutch is not seated correctly into the spider. This leads me to think that it has a hold out ring. Hold out rings aren't used with any lunch box designs.
I'd really like to see a pic of the unit opened up to see the tooth configuration inside.

Digger 5 · Dec 26, 2009

Trivia of the day-
The 14B and Eaton locker units were called No-Spin (as are dozens of applications for heavy trucks and agg vehicles). If the unit is supplied with a case, like a Dana unit, it would be a Detroit Locker.
With a case= Detroit Locker
Without a case= No Spin

mountainexplorer · Dec 26, 2009

At first I thought it was missing the outer springs and plates as well. But upon close look at it, there wasn't any indication that there ever were any or that they had been removed. Maybe I will just have to take it apart and have a look. Hopefully I can put it back together again.

Digger 5 · Dec 26, 2009

mountainexplorer said:
At first I thought it was missing the outer springs and plates as well. But upon close look at it, there wasn't any indication that there ever were any or that they had been removed. Maybe I will just have to take it apart and have a look. Hopefully I can put it back together again.

I don't know how you could tell if it did or didn't (have springs). I must had some type of spring or it would have just floated around inside open carrier. The part you're showing is slimmer than the inside of the carrier.
Can you take a pic of it inside? I'd like to see the inside spider assembly.

CHOP SHOP · Dec 26, 2009

it looks to me like the one with no springs is wider in the middle halves than the other. It looks like the one with springs has halves that are slimmer where the springs go and the other ones halves are thicker where the spring would go if it had one.

Digger 5 · Dec 26, 2009

CS could be right. Regardless, I'd still like to see the internals. This thing needs some sort of spring to work. It coul dbe a relic from many years ago. These 14B lockers were sold to the Military for decades and it still could be an old unit.

Mountain- Take a pic of the internals.

Corey Y · Dec 26, 2009

Looks like the two piece side gears have syncro teeth on the inside.

mountainexplorer · Dec 26, 2009

Just the way those side pieces are cast doesn't have the lip where the spring rides like on the confirmed "no spin" unit on the left does. And the one on the right came out as it is, and seemed spring loaded to push outward and I removed it like you would a No Spin unit using a bolt to keep it together since it wanted to spring apart despite no external spring.

So it's mainly the lack of the springs outside, (and the surfaces on which springs would have been held in place and ridden against) and the way the crosspin pieces have a small hollow hole in them and slightly different shap casting where they meet the main unit, and thats what I can tell visually. As for more inside, I'll have to go grab it and see what happens if I let it spring apart once I removed the bolt.

Thanks for the input everyone, and I'll try and post more once I have some more info to do so.

Digger 5 · Dec 27, 2009

Crazy Daze said:
Looks like the two piece side gears have syncro teeth on the inside.

The teeth look similar but not the same as the unit on the left. I'm curious how the spider looks on the inside.
If the unit is under spring pressure, it must have internal springs.