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Full Hydro Steering help, another newb question.

TacomaJD

I LIKE CHEAP STUFF.....
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I have the trail gear full hydro steering kit on my yota….link below. Need some newbie help.

http://www.trail-gear.com/full-hydraulic-kits

Now I'm still learning about this and have talked to a few people that sounded like they knew what they were talking about, but I'm still kinda trying to figure out the best place to start with troubleshooting. My steering has gotten really shitty over the past couple rides. It was fine when I first got the truck and has gradually and quickly gotten worse. Sometimes when on an obstacle it won't even turn one way if bound up, and it has never done that before. If I turn really fast on the trail, it acts like it bottoms out, makes the belt squeal, but if I keep trying to turn it, it will continue to slowly turn for 1-2 full complete steering wheel rotations in that same direction.

Scott Lang mentioned that it sounds like the pump is cavitating. I was like wtf does that mean, so I read into it and for those of you who don't know it's when there may be debris on the reservoir side of the pump causing the pump to strain while sucking the fluid, in turn creating air bubbles on the high pressure side. (or that's what I gathered that it was from a little reading)

Some have mentioned it may be boiling the fluid and needs a bigger cooler, but I find it hard to believe TG is gonna sell a kit that doesn't already come with a sufficient sized cooler, especially when it once worked perfectly for quite a while…plus this is the same steering kit Jamie had used on another truck prior to building the Toyota that I bought from him.

Pete from dirty south motorsports (I think) said he believes it may need anti-foam fluid ran in it.

I think Jamie had Royal Purple full synthetic in it and the only thing I have not mentioned is that I added a little (1/4 reservoir worth) of non-synthetic power steering fluid to it when the steering first started getting sluggish. It got low after a roll and a couple flops. Now that either could be the problem, added to an already occurring problem, or not even be a problem…I don't know. All I know is on TG's website it says synthetic and non-synthetic is fine to run in the system, only to avoid automatic tranny fluid and semi-synthetic blends. So I wonder if since I added non-synthetic on top of synthetic, it made it similar to semi-synthetic? No idea, I'm just thinking out loud.

I'm definitely gonna put a new belt on also as this one is getting a little raggedy looking and now squeals when first being crunk up sometimes, on top of squealing while steering. My thoughts are to flush all the fluid out, put all new synthetic in, and change the belt, then maybe it'll be fixed? Of course since I'm new to full hydro steering, I'm not super sure of the best way to flush the entire system of it's fluid, so I guess any input on that would be helpful also.

Thanks for helpin a newb out ;D

:drinkers:
 
mixing fluids in general is bad. Definitely flush and refill.

if the belt is squealing, then it's slipping on the pump.

The Trail Gear TC pump needs the belt ran really tight, the aluminum v-belt pulley is not really "grippy" and the pump is high output (1650 psi).



Is the fluid getting foamy/bubbly?
 
TBItoy said:
mixing fluids in general is bad. Definitely flush and refill.

if the belt is squealing, then it's slipping on the pump.

The Trail Gear TC pump needs the belt ran really tight, the aluminum v-belt pulley is not really "grippy" and the pump is high output (1650 psi).



Is the fluid getting foamy/bubbly?

I don't really know, haven't looked. Just kept on driving it throughout the day til time to load up and go home. The wounded warriors ride at Morris Mtn last month was when it got really shitty. I was doing freaking 17 point turns holding everybody up. Had so much going on lately that I haven't had time to fawk with it. will be off work pretty much the entire week of the 4th of July so that's when I plan on tinkering with it. Gotta have it ready by the nightride at Hawk Pride.

zukimaster said:
You should flush it and run Keystone Light in it! it will drive drive awsum
Bet it'd run SMOOOTH.....like Keith Stone. :drinkers:
 
Your not going fast enough for the air flowing across the system to draw out the heat into the atmosphere. :dblthumb:
 
Re: Re: Re: Full Hydro Steering help, another newb question.

BUG-E J said:
Your not going fast enough for the air flowing across the system to draw out the heat into the atmosphere. :dblthumb:

You don't always need wheel speed son :flipoff1:

I mash my motor, it just doesn't move like the red rocket molaugh

Sent from my not-so-dumb phone...
 
Re: Re: Re: Full Hydro Steering help, another newb question.

BUG-E J said:
Your not going fast enough for the air flowing across the system to draw out the heat into the atmosphere. :dblthumb:

Fwiw I ran a tg1650 pump, 8" tg ram, stock reservoir, 9.7" charlynn non-reaction valve and a cheapo summit racing tube/fin cooler on my old buggy and never had the first problem. Never got hot or anything.

I fed it JAX Type Z hydraulic fluid from day one though.

2.5 years no issues.
 
Re: Re: Re: Full Hydro Steering help, another newb question.

TBItoy said:
Fwiw I ran a tg1650 pump, 8" tg ram, stock reservoir, 9.7" charlynn non-reaction valve and a cheapo summit racing tube/fin cooler on my old buggy and never had the first problem. Never got hot or anything.

I fed it JAX Type Z hydraulic fluid from day one though.

2.5 years no issues.

So what would be the simplest way to flush the system of the fluid that's currently in it? Sounds like the fluid change and new def needs to be done whether that fixes the problem or not.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Full Hydro Steering help, another newb question.

TacomaJD said:
So what would be the simplest way to flush the system of the fluid that's currently in it? Sounds like the fluid change and new def needs to be done whether that fixes the problem or not.

Take all the lines off at the lowest point, drain, steer the orbital back and forth, push the ram back and forth, then fill it all back up and manually bleed/burp it the best you can with whatever fluid you plan to use.


You probably didn't mix enough of the "wrong" fluid to cause a problem unless you are getting foaming/bubbles. Some additives/chemistry doesn't play well together.

I'd suggest running a good all weather tractor/equipment hydraulic fluid instead of ps fluid. (mainly because you'll know exactly what it is, instead of just "power steering fluid" which is difficult to find spec sheets on even tho it is really just hydraulic fluid)
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Full Hydro Steering help, another newb question.

TBItoy said:
Take all the lines off at the lowest point, drain, steer the orbital back and forth, push the ram back and forth, then fill it all back up and manually bleed/burp it the best you can with whatever fluid you plan to use.


You probably didn't mix enough of the "wrong" fluid to cause a problem unless you are getting foaming/bubbles. Some additives/chemistry doesn't play well together.

I'd suggest running a good all weather tractor/equipment hydraulic fluid instead of ps fluid. (mainly because you'll know exactly what it is, instead of just "power steering fluid" which is difficult to find spec sheets on even tho it is really just hydraulic fluid)

Gotcha, thanks a lot. Maybe upon draining everything, IF there happens to be debris on the low pressure side, it will get dislodged preventing cavitation or whatever if the fluid mix isn't really the problem. Hopefully I'll get to it soon and that fixes it. Will update after I start messing with it.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Full Hydro Steering help, another newb question.

TBItoy said:
Take all the lines off at the lowest point, drain, steer the orbital back and forth, push the ram back and forth, then fill it all back up and manually bleed/burp it the best you can with whatever fluid you plan to use.


You probably didn't mix enough of the "wrong" fluid to cause a problem unless you are getting foaming/bubbles. Some additives/chemistry doesn't play well together.

I'd suggest running a good all weather tractor/equipment hydraulic fluid instead of ps fluid. (mainly because you'll know exactly what it is, instead of just "power steering fluid" which is difficult to find spec sheets on even tho it is really just hydraulic fluid)

Had to drain the hydro fluid in my old CJ7 once and what nick said is the best way to do it. I'd recommend a big bucket and a buddy there to help catch the fluid while you steer back and forth. I had no idea there was that much hydro fluid in that setup until I had the flush it out.
 
Re: Re: Re: Full Hydro Steering help, another newb question.

JohnG said:
What did TG say when you called them?

To post my question here because yaw knowz yer shitz! molaugh

Neal3000 said:
Have you tried bleeding it? Maybe trapped some air when you rolled

Sounds dumb that I haven't really thought about that...but I figure that would save alot of time and mess if that ended up fixing it.

Sent from my not-so-dumb phone...
 
Re: Re: Re: Full Hydro Steering help, another newb question.

Neal3000 said:
Have you tried bleeding it? Maybe trapped some air when you rolled

That is possible, the drain-refill-bleed will take care of that.

My runner has been rolled dozens of times and never trapped any air in the system fwiw.

The tg orbitals (and psc china orbitals that they don't sell anymore) don't exactly have a spotless reputation, so it wouldn't be a huge stretch to think the orbital is having issues
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Full Hydro Steering help, another newb question.

TBItoy said:
That is possible, the drain-refill-bleed will take care of that.

My runner has been rolled dozens of times and never trapped any air in the system fwiw.

The tg orbitals (and psc china orbitals that they don't sell anymore) don't exactly have a spotless reputation, so it wouldn't be a huge stretch to think the orbital is having issues

So if the re-fill, bleed, belt don't fix it, the orbital would be my next suspect over the pump?

Sent from my not-so-dumb phone...
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Full Hydro Steering help, another newb question.

TacomaJD said:
So if the re-fill, bleed, belt don't fix it, the orbital would be my next suspect over the pump?

Sent from my not-so-dumb phone...

That would be the next step.

Make up a T fitting with a hose and gauge if you really want to check every thing out. All your fittings should be -6 so it should be easy to get the correct T. You can check the bypass pressure of the pump (T the line from the pump to orbital).

If you are at full lock and the wheel can still turn (with engine running) then the ram or orbital is bypassing internally, which can cause cavitation (bubbles). Most people are quick to blame the pump, but that isn't always the case.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Full Hydro Steering help, another newb question.

TBItoy said:
That would be the next step.

Make up a T fitting with a hose and gauge if you really want to check every thing out. All your fittings should be -6 so it should be easy to get the correct T. You can check the bypass pressure of the pump (T the line from the pump to orbital).

If you are at full lock and the wheel can still turn (with engine running) then the ram or orbital is bypassing internally, which can cause cavitation (bubbles). Most people are quick to blame the pump, but that isn't always the case.

Yup, that's exactly what it is doing. And sometimes not turning at all hardly if I'm bound up on an obstacle. Done it maybe twice at Morris Mtn.

Sent from my not-so-dumb phone...
 
Call me crazy, but I still vote some of your issues are from that front axle being locked 100% of the time. Wire up a switch to that e-locker! You will be amazed at the difference.
 
Re: Re: Re: Full Hydro Steering help, another newb question.

ibrokeit said:
Call me crazy, but I still vote some of your issues are from that front axle being locked 100% of the time. Wire up a switch to that e-locker! You will be amazed at the difference.

It worked perfectly when I first got it, prolly went on 6 or 7 rides before I noticed it starting to get shitty. Something has happened within the past 3 rides I've been on, it's just kept getting worse.

Sent from my not-so-dumb phone...
 

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