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Help with a fuel pressure loss issue

patooyee

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My fuel system starts with two in-tank pumps, both of which have a built-in check valve.

I only use one pump at a time, the other is just a spare, and I was told that the built in check valves are not robust enough to hold back full pressure and are just there to maintain prime, so each pump also has its own inline check valve that IS rated for full pressure to prevent one from pumping through the other when not in use. These check valves are in the fuel cell. Both pumps then tee together into one supply line that goes out the top of the tank and then through ANOTHER inline check valve before going through the rails and into the regulator. This check valve is redundant, left over from a previous pump setup.

The regulator is an Aeromotive with dual inlets, an outlet, and a a port for a gauge, which I am using for an in-cab gauge.

The fuel then returns to the tank.

When I first built this system everything worked fine. When I shut the pump off pressure would remain in the lines for almost an entire day. But about halfway through my first ride it suddenly started bleeding down very quickly after shutting the pump down. By the end of the ride pressure would drop to zero immediately after being shut down and the pump would then have to fill the lines again when starting back up every time.

While the rig runs there are no issues, pumps can maintain pressure just fine, plenty of power. There are no external fuel leaks, not even a fuel odor coming from anywhere. I have switched both pumps and it happens when using both of them.

I've had injectors stick open in the past that would make fuel pressure drop this fast. But every time they have filled the cylinders full of fuel causing the engine to lock up, destroy a starter when trying to start, or run extremely rich. None of that is happening now, as I said, engine is running perfectly.

For the pressure to be lost through the pressure line it would mean that the redundant inline check valve both in the line and at the pump as well as the internal pump check valve would all have to have failed. They were all new when installed, the ones in the tank are only a couple months old with maybe 6 hours of ride time total, the one in the line not much older than that. I would think the chances of all those valves failing would be near zilch.

My next thought is maybe the regulator is dumping pressure back to tank via the return line when it shouldn't be? But I would think if that was the case it would have issues maintaining the correct pressure?

I'm kind of at a loss as to where to start looking. Prefer not to just start tearing everything apart. Anyone seen this before or have a theory that I haven't covered? I'm afraid that making my pumps constantly re-prime like this is going to kill them sooner than later.
 
I got nothing, except keep an eye out for lizzards!


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Regutor. FYI...I have an Aeromotive regulator on all 3 of my buggies and none of them hold pressure when the pump is switched off. 1 is in take single pump, 1 is in tank dual pumps and 1 is external in line pump. Same result. I don't really think it's an issue
 
crawlin85cj said:
Regutor. FYI...I have an Aeromotive regulator on all 3 of my buggies and none of them hold pressure when the pump is switched off. 1 is in take single pump, 1 is in tank dual pumps and 1 is external in line pump. Same result. I don't really think it's an issue

Thanks, that's good to know. It just ticks me off because at one point it DID hold pressure.

grcthird said:
Make sure you don't have a leaking injector.

I'm very sensitive about that because I know what it can do and also because I've had two injectors stick open in the past. I have hooked up HPTuners and looked at my fuel trims, they are normal. (One bank would read low if the injector was leaking, right?) The first time one stuck open the ck engine light started flashing rapidly and the motor started running like ****. I shut it down, not knowing what was going on, gave it a minute, tried to start it back up, the engine wouldn't turn and the starter quit working. (I later dissected the starter to find that one of the gears in the starter is made of plastic specifically so that it will strip out before destroying an engine.) It was my first time so all I knew to do was pull the plugs and turn it over. I ended up getting a coke can full of 93 octane under high pressure in the eye that time, my friends had a good laugh and I had the taste of fuel stuck in my mouth for hours. The second time the engine ran like ****, ck engine light started flashing, so I shut it down and didn't bother trying to restart. That time I pulled one injector rail with the injectors still in it and looked down each injector bore and found one of them filled to the brim with fuel. I ran the pump without the ignition and and confirmed that that injector was spraying even with the connector disconnected, replaced the injector with a spare I keep, and all was good again.

I only mention all that because none of it is happening now. I rode all last Fri. at RBD, went up HP Hill, V-Notch, Still Hill, rode the trails, not a hickup from the motor. In addition to reading fuel trims with HPT, I've also just ran the pump with the engine off trying to fill the cylinder with gas. I then turned it over without the ignition off, just using the starter, and the starter did not bog down at all as I would expect it to if the cylinder had been filled with gas. Short of pulling the rails again, I think I've done all I can to prove that there is not a leaky injector this time.

So if it is the regulator, what should I replace it with that will hold pressure? Is there a better brand than Aeromotive?
 
Re:

Found the instructions for my regulator: "the enclosed regulator may not hold significant fuel pressure after the pump is turned off."

I guess that explains it. Still kind of gay imo though.

Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk
 
grcthird said:
Clamp off your return line and see if holds pressure.

Good idea. I capped the return line off and pumped some fuel. It went up to 60 psi (where the regulator is set at.) pretty quick and then held there for a second or two, then started shooting up really high, so I stopped pumping. At that point it slowly bled pressure down to about 50 psi and held there. It seemed like something snapped or popped into place in the regulator when the pressure shot up like that so I hooked the return line back up and pumped some fluid again at which point it started holding at about 55psi with the pump off again. So I'm guessing maybe the reg. had some trash in it or something that got cleared out by dead-heading it? I don't know, but its working fine now. :dunno:
 
Re:

I just get tired of replacing fuel pumps. If that's anal than I'm ok with it.

Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk
 
What pumps are you running now? Any pics of your new fuel cell fan shroud arrangement?
 
Re:

Walbro 225 external pumps in the tank. I can get some pics today.

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Re:

patooyee said:
Walbro 225 external pumps in the tank. I can get some pics today.

Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk

A while back you said the walbros were not sufficient enough to run these ls engines, what made you change your mind?
 
Re:

Jduck said:
A while back you said the walbros were not sufficient enough to run these ls engines, what made you change your mind?

I don't recall ever saying that about the PUMPS. I have a theory that has been born out in a few real-world scenarios (including my own) where the Walbro PICKUPS have been eliminated from a system and the rigs immediately stopped eating pumps / the pumps operated much quieter. My theory is that a pickup designed to feed an 80hp snow mobile pump may be insufficient to feed a 400+hp LS engine pump. That may be what you are thinking of?

Here are the pics you requested.

2013-12-06 09.48.54.jpg


2013-12-06 09.48.59.jpg


2013-12-06 09.49.12.jpg


2013-12-06 09.49.22.jpg


Its kind of difficult to see what is going on because everything is packed in kind of tight, but I built an aluminum shield that deflects air from the radiator down out the bottom instead of past the fuel cell. I also used adhesive insulation (which is REALLY effective!) on the shield, back and sides of the cell.

(Here's a link to the stuff. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DEI-050501 It's amazing. I used it under my driver floor pan also since my mufflers are there. I went from melting the bottoms of my boots to completely comfortable with just one layer of it.)

When I was redesigning the system to what I have now I eliminated the Walbro pickups and used conventional socks on the pumps and built an internal surge tank to try and trap fuel. Since I did this I completely stopped boiling my fuel, the pumps have lasted 3 rides, and they are eternally quieter. Before I was changing a pump every ride, even in cool weather when I wasn't boiling the fuel, and the pump was super loud, I could hear it even over my exhaust.

My choice to go to the Walbro pumps was simply a logistic one. They were the easiest to adapt to the fittings that I wanted to use in my tank. That, and they are cheap. I think an Airtex E8248, Bosch 044, Walbro 255, or many of the Aeromotive pumps are sufficient to feed most LS engines.
 
That stick on heat shield is some bad ass stuff. Used it on the last buggy on the floor boards. Glad to see ya got the fuel system figured out!
 

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