Indoor firepit

redneckengineered · Feb 2, 2016

I know John is our resident fire log expert but I thought I'd post this here because others might find it interesting and I welcome any other input. I'm in the midst of a remodel of a lake house, about 90% finished. There is a feature in the center of the home that the previous owners had used as an indoor coy pond (don't ask). It is built out of poured concrete and actually quite nice visually so I didn't demo it. The fish had to go though. I've since faced the structure with stacked stone inside and out and it looks awesome.

I'd like to turn this into a ventless indoor fire pit and fill it with the fireglass stuff. I already have natural gas running to the bottom of the pit and everything is there and plumbed. I've hit a snag trying to find a burner that will work. The interior dimensions of the pit are 34" x 34" x 12" deep. All the ventless burners are long and rectangular, designed for a fire place and the actual square firepit burners I'm finding are all outdoor only rated. Any advice?

I'll try and post a picture of the pit when I get a chance, I don't have a good one at the moment.

TacomaJD · Feb 2, 2016

You ain't pimpin' unless you got a coy pond in yer living room! Sit on the couch, and go fishing! molaugh

Toddy · Feb 2, 2016

If John G can't hook you up I got a guy you can call. He's in Knoxville but has family in Chattanooga and visits often.

Stuntman Autoworks · Feb 2, 2016

Could you make your own burner tubes?

John Galbreath Jr. · Feb 2, 2016

Unfortunately, what you are wanting to do is not allowed by the building code due to safety concerns. Also the 40,000 BTU limit on vent free would not give you the flame you are looking for. Vent free must be either placed in an approved vent free firebox, or in a working wood burning fireplace (you can close damper). You have neither of those requirements. Feel free to call me on the phone about it.

CheapJ7 · Feb 2, 2016

Only get the hookups over the phone. No posting of illegal **** on al gores interweb!

Bumpers · Feb 2, 2016

Re:

What John said. It's not a good idea to install and "vent free" (room vented) fireplace in the first place but if you are going to do so at least follow the sizing guidelines and follow the operational directions for using such a product. I remove and replace ventless/ventfree/room vented fireplaces every week and personally wouldn't put anything in my home that combustion takes place in without venting the exhaust gasses to the outside.

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TacomaJD · Feb 2, 2016

Re:

Bumpers said:
I personally wouldn't put anything in my home that combustion takes place in without venting the exhaust gasses to the outside.

100% my thoughts. Consumes oxygen and emits fumes from burning whatever particulates are in your home's air space (dust, hair spray, fart particles....lol). Kinda like the warning label on cigarettes. Ain't gonna kill you now, but might later. Ventless even says do not go to sleep with fireplace lit.

Hell put a vented wood burning stove in the middle, make it real redneck! :drinkers:

Beerj · Feb 2, 2016

Actually a 360° glass octagon with polished brass trim and an attached hood with chimney would be cool if it looks how I imagine. You'd still have a nice ambient flame with some radiant heat that I would guess could be considered confined and vented.

John Galbreath Jr. · Feb 2, 2016

Beerj said:
Actually a 360° glass octagon with polished brass trim and an attached hood with chimney would be cool if it looks how I imagine. You'd still have a nice ambient flame with some radiant heat that I would guess could be considered confined and vented.

I sold a bunch of those 30-40 years ago. Not seen any in a long time. But, here is the web page:

http://www.malmfireplaces.com/carosel.html

TacomaJD · Feb 2, 2016

JohnG said:
I sold a bunch of those 30-40 years ago. Not seen any in a long time. But, here is the web page:

http://www.malmfireplaces.com/carosel.html

Kinda got that vintage look, but that would be kickass to have in a lake house! Or any house, for that matter! Not as simple as flipping a gas valve and lighting, but who needs simple? :rolf:

Beerj · Feb 2, 2016

That's pretty much what I envisioned except with a flat black hood and the brass between the glass. Also ditch the pedestal and set it in/on the stacked stones.

redneckengineered · Feb 3, 2016

Re:

TacomaJD said:
100% my thoughts. Consumes oxygen and emits fumes from burning whatever particulates are in your home's air space (dust, hair spray, fart particles....lol). Kinda like the warning label on cigarettes. Ain't gonna kill you now, but might later. Ventless even says do not go to sleep with fireplace lit.

Hell put a vented wood burning stove in the middle, make it real redneck!

Bumpers said:
What John said. It's not a good idea to install and "vent free" (room vented) fireplace in the first place but if you are going to do so at least follow the sizing guidelines and follow the operational directions for using such a product. I remove and replace ventless/ventfree/room vented fireplaces every week and personally wouldn't put anything in my home that combustion takes place in without venting the exhaust gasses to the outside.

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I don't have a real issue with ventless logs in general. Yea the flame kind of sucks and you don't get the realism but my parents have ventless logs due to non operable chimneys in an old home and they will straight run you out of the room due to the heat they put out. Never had the first issue out of them. They never get run for more than a few hours at a time.

JohnG said:
I sold a bunch of those 30-40 years ago. Not seen any in a long time. But, here is the web page:

http://www.malmfireplaces.com/carosel.html

Holy ****, blast from the past. My grandparents had one of those. I had completely forgotten about it until seeing that picture. Good memory there.

Let's just hypothetically say I have the code issues covered and there's definitely not going to be a way for me to vent this sucker. Why can't I just drop in a 30" ventfree burner and fill around with the fireglass?
http://americanfireglass.com/burners/ventfree-burners/double-face-vent-free-burner-for-propane.html
I happen to be setup with a distributor that sells the American Fireglass brand so I get it at wholesale.

redneckengineered · Feb 3, 2016

Not the best but it's the only pictures I have right now

customcj7 · Feb 3, 2016

The kicker with that burner that you listed is that it is designed for a ventless or vented fireplace. Those things are specifically dialed in for Oxygen intake, and CO output to ensure minimum on both ends so it's safe.

If you don't have an enclosed system, and are just burning, then it's no longer safe, and you're right back to major codes no/no, insurance will drop you like a bad habit if you even fart wrong, and you know there is that little thing..............you can die.

What I would do if I were you is bring in a ventless professional. Have him build an enclosure for that spot and then you can use a burner. In short, you will not be able to have an open flame table like you could in an outdoor environment. I can see what you're imagining, and those are cool with the fire glass around them, but they are terribly unsafe in an indoor environment. You need something to control the various gases coming out of that thing.

What about filling in the floor with more concrete and put a wood burning stove with a small chimney pipe coming out of it? How far is this spot from a wall?
I'd try to do that in a heartbeat. Real heat, great smell, looks and sounds awesome.

John Galbreath Jr. · Feb 3, 2016

Unlike CustonCJ7, I don't have a problem with vent free. I have sold 10,000 sets of gas logs per year, for over 25 years. About 35% of those are vent free. I have never had a CO issue where human life was hurt or taken. There are two different schools of thought in our industry. I am also a distributor of American Fireglass. And had a burner close to that with glass in my fireplace at home for the last five years. I changed this year to something that looked better, but it is still vent free, we run it at home about 3 hours each night. I also have a vent free glass burner in my office. I have no issue with vent free.

What I have an issue with is you do not have an approved firebox to put it in. Air currents are critical with vent free. It would be to easy to get what you have out of spec and cause carbon monoxide.

I am not a .gov kind of guy, but I will not steer you towards a potentially unsafe situation.

redneckengineered · Feb 3, 2016

JohnG said:
Unlike CustonCJ7, I don't have a problem with vent free. I have sold 10,000 sets of gas logs per year, for over 25 years. About 35% of those are vent free. I have never had a CO issue where human life was hurt or taken. There are two different schools of thought in our industry. I am also a distributor of American Fireglass. And had a burner close to that with glass in my fireplace at home for the last five years. I changed this year to something that looked better, but it is still vent free, we run it at home about 3 hours each night. I also have a vent free glass burner in my office. I have no issue with vent free.

What I have an issue with is you do not have an approved firebox to put it in. Air currents are critical with vent free. It would be to easy to get what you have out of spec and cause carbon monoxide.

I am not a .gov kind of guy, but I will not steer you towards a potentially unsafe situation.

This is good advice, and why I came here. Looks like I got the cart before the fuggin horse on this one. Dammit.

John Galbreath Jr. · Feb 3, 2016

redneckengineered said:
This is good advice, and why I came here. Looks like I got the cart before the fuggin horse on this one. Dammit.

Last guy probably did the same thing, then said **** it, I'll put fish in it. Wife did not like the fish smell, so they sold the house to you.

Beerj · Feb 3, 2016

JohnG said:
Last guy probably did the same thing, then said **** it, I'll put fish in it. Wife did not like the fish smell, so they sold the house to you.

I'm picking up what you're putting down...
The solution lies somewhere within adding fish to fire.

Bumpers · Feb 3, 2016

Re: Re:

redneckengineered said:
I don't have a real issue with ventless logs in general. Yea the flame kind of sucks and you don't get the realism but my parents have ventless logs due to non operable chimneys in an old home and they will straight run you out of the room due to the heat they put out. Never had the first issue out of them. They never get run for more than a few hours at a time.

Ventless products are not designed as a Heat source. They are strictly a decorative appliance. If you were to talk to the maker of said products their recommendation will be something to the tune of you must first supply sufficient combustion air for said appliance via opening windows a minimum of 1" or other provisions. Ventless units are designed to burn 10-15 minutes at a time no more than 4 hours in a 24 hour period. The info is out there if you look. There are also very strict sizing guidelines that should be followed when buying a ventless product.

My family has been in fireplaces for a long time and have torn out and replaced countless ventless fireplaces and replaced with vented/direct vent fireplaces of some sorts. I've got I think 40 ventless fireplaces sitting behind my shop right now that we have torn out over the past year.

To me it's simple .. just like you are not suppose to leave a vehicle running in a garage with the door down due to exhaust Co poisoning. Any type of cumbustion creates byproduct no matter how efficient said product is.

Sorry for the spill but that's how I feel about ventless

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