Reiter Updates: Summer/Fall 2010

[Money Mark]

I will leak info as I receive it and deem reasonable to release.

Edit: If you have "read into" this initial post, I'm not keeping secrets and will not twist the facts......I will tell you everything that I know. Ask and you shall receive.

 

[Money Mark]

I am currently the new RTW (Reiter Trail Watch) Secretary. My function will be to take and release the meeting's minutes (notes) and relay this information to the public.

I am also (thanks to Charlie aka nowires; in cooperation with DNR staff) directly involved with the trail design; helping the trail design engineers and DNR staff better understand possible "social issues". Such as: Why someone might drive off the trail. Where it's likely to take place. What the ORV users want out of a trail. Defining the different users groups (i.e. Jeepers, Hardcore wheelers, Sunday drivers) Etc, etc. Basically the who, what, when where and why of 4x4 ORV use. (I'm using this as a metaphor, don't take that literally)

I will not be heavily involved in the "How". This is where Charlie and the trail design engineers excel at what they do.

Plain terms, I'm a "consultant".

 

[Money Mark]

Slow leak or a fast leak?

What do you have so far?

Fast.

There have been 4 types of trail identified. I will relate them to trails we know, rather than use words like easy, moderate, hard.

Green = Cable Trail/Sac Up at Reiter, #520/311 at Evans, Sunrise trail at Elbe.

Yellow = Bonus Round/BYS/SOL at Reiter, 222 at Evans, Busy Wild at Elbe.

Red = OM/Outlet Mall are Reiter, Moon Rocks in Naches

Purple = the new Rattlesnake trail, Shoestring in Naches

There will be no trails that have "consequences" like Rim Rock......no "death wheeling".

You will need not to correct me or make other examples in my comparosions......as the new Reiter will not be comparable to anything we have seen in Washington. The comparisons are for a real life understanding, not a direct relation.


-Trails will not be a muddy mess. (like most trails in western WA are/can be)
-Trails will not be "paved" (like the 311 entrance is currently or like parts of Walker Valley)
-Trails will have a rock base (like parts of Walker).......with large rocks, logs and the like, as obstacles.
-There is talk of a designated mud pit with multiple opportunities to exit and re-enter this mud pit; separate from the actual trails and trail system.

*Every trail will be new. If your question is: "Will we get to use the old ______trail?" No. Even old trails that exist in Section 1 (get familiar with the map of Sections) will be modified and/or restored.
*Everything will be "man made" and/or placed by man and machine. The use of Shotcrete is a strong possibility (like WeRock events).
*Every opportunity of difficulty Reiter provided, will again be available.




Note: Single track (bike) riders and Quad riders are not in the same Section(s) as the 4x4 users. Information about them, their trails and their progression will not be posted here........because I don't know. When Reiter is re-opened, they will not be kept from using our 4x4 areas....they will be encouraged to use their own built Sections of New Reiter.

 

[Money Mark]

I just spent the last 2 days in the field.:awesomework:

 

[xjoffroad]

ETA on when trails will actually be breaking ground? anything on when DNR would like to see Reiter reopened?

 

[Money Mark]

We'd like to see the 1st phase opened this Fall. 1 green, 1 yellow, 1 purple......maybe the red trail as well.

Will it? Weez atry'n......:redneck:

 

[Boonie Buster]

Incorrect. Crash or other mod......please clean house.

Boonie....if you don't behave I will recommend you be banned from this ongoing thread. Seems like I'm being a hypocrite? I'm not.:;

Other folks are welcome to PM Boonie and explain to him in their own words what I'm doing. Thank you.:awesomework:

It's happened in the past, no worries. :awesomework:

-So what percentage of each trail difficulty are they trying to achieve? (once it is "finished")

-Is there room for future growth of trails, meaning, once the main set of trails have been built, in a few years will we be able to possibly build more trails or improve on existing trails?

 

[crash2]

Bottom line--we are looking great.

Just remember "faster" is not much of an option and we are doing what we can. We are still working with the "government" and you all know how fast that goes..

But I am pretty excited we are progressing as we are..

 

[Money Mark]

It's happened in the past, no worries. :awesomework:

-So what percentage of each trail difficulty are they trying to achieve? (once it is "finished")

-Is there room for future growth of trails, meaning, once the main set of trails have been built, in a few years will we be able to possibly build more trails or improve on existing trails?

You had me steamed up there mister.......I'm cool now.

Hard to say on %'s, but......30% green, 40% yellow, 20% purple, 10% red......something like that.

Future growth will be limited. Limited because of the proposed density of the trail network we hope to get. Simple answer: When it's done, it's done......and we do it right the fist time.

Improvement is always a possibility......in reality, it's a necessity. As rigs "grow", the trails "grow".......in difficulty. We will be building the trails for the rigs, not the other way around.:cheer:

Push for faster work Mark. Why not two of them? Oh ya thanks Mark

Open 2 phases you mean? Same answer to all related questions........available funds. Monies available will dictate. (stupid political answer, I know. But it's the truth.)

 

[Money Mark]

-Trails will have a rock base (like parts of Walker).......with large rocks, logs and the like, as obstacles.
-------------
*Everything will be "man made" and/or placed by man and machine. The use of Shotcrete is a strong possibility (like WeRock events).

I would like to hit on these two points, as they need further explanation.

Rock base:

In order to better control water flow and to allow the INTENSE USE these trails will see, we can not and will not be driving on (just) dirt....which turns into mud......which is every Eco-Nazi's (I hate that term, but you know what I mean) gripe about every 4x4 trail. I will simplify this idea to a landscaping term......French Drain. We'll be driving over a "French Drain" of sorts, composed of rock from 5/8th to 24" crushed. There will also be many, many water bars to further direct the flow of water off the trail. Some water bars will be large enough to be the obstacle, for that small section of trail. All directed water flow will be in short stints, to low areas off the trail, where it can go back into Mother Earth.......un-harmfull and un-harmed.

Man-made:

We challenge Mother Nature to change/disrupt our trails. The trails will be designed/built with 1000's of hours, from 1000's of users, of use in mind. The trails will be designed/build so folks like Bill Lider will have nothing to "red flag". The trails will be designed/built so unnecessary/excessive maintenance is not needed. The trails will be designed/built so they can last a lifetime. Bold, I know. Realistic, I believe.

 

[Money Mark]

I was gonna save this for later because the actual vehicle restriction(s) are not yet defined. But Stan (DNR staff) has made it clear there will be....so, without further adue: The purple trails will be tight and twisty "Jeep trails", like the new Bethel Ridge Little Rattlesnake Trail, and have similar vehicle restrictions. Example: 98' WB and 76" width. Examples only! The actual vehicle size restrictions will be determined at a later date.

I was going to leave my opinions out of this thread (facts and ideas only) but this time I will not be arguing. So drama will not be provoked, by my part.

Since "we" (larger rigs) will have many other trails to use, I don't have a problem with these proposed vehicle restrictions for the Purple Trails. And I (we) will not fight against it or try to over-turn the decision/idea. ALL RIGS MUST BE (and will be) PROPERLY REPRESENTED AND ACCOMMODATED:awesomework:

 

[nick c]

Just a heads up, as this has some very good information I intend to keep this thread heavily moderated.

Post if you have a legitiment question that pertains to this thread. If you want to thank the volunteers, talk ****, or tell us how you are now inspired use one of the other 12 Reiter threads.

I've cleaned this so it is bare-bones and will continue to do so...

Don't take offense if your post has been removed, just go post in one of the other threads. Thanks for your cooperation. :awesomework::beer:

 

[iceman1]

how many miles of trails are to be expected?

 

[boardbysled]

how many miles of trails are to be expected?

I'm going to expand on this question, how many miles were "settled" upon before opening.

 

[crash2]

I'm going to expand on this question, how many miles were "settled" upon before opening.

Nothing is in stone regarding this yet....

 

[crash2]

how many miles of trails are to be expected?

I think 10ish was a rough figure if I remember correctly.

But with the new rieter its not going to be quantity as much as its going to be quality.

 

[Money Mark]

how many miles of trails are to be expected?

Officially, I will give the same answer Charlie and Stan give to inquiring "powers-that-be"......between 6 and 12 miles of trail. Unofficially, I see it being more towards the upper end.:clappy:

Note: We will not see the total "12 miles of trail" until the project is complete.......a year or 2 from now.

Some comparisons: Walker Valley has 4 miles of 4x4 trail. Elbe Hills has 6 miles of 4x4 trail. Old Reiter and New Reiter will be on par with each other in terms of trail mileage.......roughly.

Disclaimer: These examples should be taken so as to give the reader a sense of what could be run in a day (or weekend) in typical rigs, wheeling at a typical pace.

Simple answer: When complete, Reiter will keep you busy for a weekend.

 

[Money Mark]

I'm going to expand on this question, how many miles were "settled" upon before opening.

Charlie has presented his map with mileage. The trail design engineers will build it on paper. The DNR will approve it.

Bottom line: We won't settle for less than what is needed and deemed reasonable.

Sorry, political BS answer unavoidable.

 

[boardbysled]

Bottom line: We won't settle for less than what is needed and deemed reasonable.

Was it settled or discussed with Stan/DNR how much trail will be deemed necessery for opening. I know we talked about it a bit at the RTW meeting, but that was more a discussion than anything...

 

[Money Mark]

.....how much trail will be deemed necessary for opening.

I can only give my opinion to answer this question: 3 miles.