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T-Stat the great debate!!!

angelfly

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So a few buddies and I were sitting around in the shop last night drinking a few beer and we all started arguing about the thermostat in a wheeler and if one is required or not. . . .

So my question is Do u have 2 run a thermostat??? IF u take it out isn't the water just running full force the whole time???

What are the problems of removing it??? I have heard so many different things on this matter I dont know what 2 believe. . . .

So lets hear it. We are talking a fulltime wheeler, and no the heater working is not a requirement!! I am merely speaking from a performance and relaibilty standpoint for the motor???:stirpot:
 
Theremostats are needed in all water cooled vehicles wheelers especially. The radiator is a heat exchanger, the engine gets heated above the opening temp of the thermostat and the hot water cycles out of the engine into the radiator to be cooled off passing through the radiator. Once the coolant is back under the set temp of the thermostat it closes and lets the cycle happen all over again.

If you run with no thermostat you will get one of two things, an engine that runs hot at all times or one that runs too cool. Generally there is no middle ground.
 
I think you should run a thermostat..... leaving it out can cause problems .. the engine can still run hot .. as the water flows to quickly and can't absorb the heat .. It will not say it on the guage as it measures water temperature . but areas of the engine can still be running to hot. Also the notor will not likely warm up to operating temp. in the sub-freezing temps.

I dont know any pros to leaving it out, other than, you don't have to buy a new one.

My worthless.02:awesomework:
 
you can move the fluid through the system faster then the radiator can cool it off the t-stat helps to regulate the flow so you get proper cooling of the fluid although now a days they also want the engines to be running at high temps for better burning of the hydro carbons (not necessarily the optimal engine running temp)

But the bottom line is your engine needs to be at a give temp and the better you are at keeping the engine at the operating temp the more life your engine will have as well as better power delivery from it... if you can keep your engine at the optimal engine temp with out the t-stat, well that's just great... I prefer to run one but I play with different temp settings to keep the engine at the temp I want it to run at.
 
From my experiances. Running no t-stat will creat overheating issues way more than running too cold. If you have a t-stat issue you are better off running it pinched full open as I have never seen a motor overheat doing it that way--just enough resistance to allow the fluid to cool.
 
I'm sure Skidmark will have some compelling argument to prove me wrong (:rolleyes:), but there is nothing factual about the old wives' tale that water flowing too fast through the radiator due to a missing thermostat will cause your engine to run too hot. Radiator fins aren't big enough to produce the cavitation volume necessary to substantially reduce the heat transfer efficiency any appreciable amount. And hot spots in the engine block's water jacket are going to be hot spots no matter how many gallons of water per minute flow past them.


That said, definitely run one. Your motor is most efficient at proper operating temperature.
 
From my experiances. Running no t-stat will creat overheating issues way more than running too cold. If you have a t-stat issue you are better off running it pinched not full open as I have never seen a motor overheat doing it that way--just enough resistance to allow the fluid to cool.


did you mean to say it this way? and pinched is almost just like having a t-stat.
 
did you mean to say it this way? and pinched is almost just like having a t-stat.

I think he posted that correct. There should be no problem with pinching it wide open.:awesomework:

Not sure why anyone would go to this measure though. I believe one should just run a proper thermostat, and do it the right way. This would be a trail fix or something, not a full on fix.
 
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If it's fuel injected yes for sure.. Otherwise the computer will over adjust the fuel ratio to try and warm up the motor without a thermostat. Burning more fuel. Probably triggering a check engine like.

Plus you want some heat in the winter right?? Run a thermostat. :cool:
 
If it's fuel injected yes for sure.. Otherwise the computer will over adjust the fuel ratio to try and warm up the motor without a thermostat. Burning more fuel. Probably triggering a check engine like.

Plus you want some heat in the winter right?? Run a thermostat. :cool:

Starting in like 04' GM started having a particular code for a bad t-stat.
 
More info than you probably wanted, but that's what I'm good at...

Not my write-up, but he worded it better than I would have, so I saved this one. This has more to do with why an engine might overheat without a t-stat, and it has nothing to do with water flowing too fast through the radiator.


The issue with running without a thermostat is two-fold. The first
part is that the thermostat provides drag on the water flow. This
drag increases the backpressure the water pump and all of the engine
sees. This additional pressure, over and above the nominal 15 psi
static pressure the radiator cap sets, raises the boiling point of
the coolant. The reason this is important is that it suppresses
localized film boiling at hot spots such as around the exhaust
port. The transition from nucleatic boiling (bubbles of steam
originating from irregularities on the surface) to film boiling
(where the hot surface is coated with a film of steam) is called
Departure from Nucleatic Boiling or DNB. DNB is very bad, for steam
is a very good insulator compared to water. Once DNB occurs, the
area under the steam gets hotter because the steam doesn't remove
very much heat, adjacent metal which is still wetted heats from
conduction. DNB happens there. The process spreads until
substantially all the coolant-wetted surfaces are insulated by a
film of steam. The engine overheats. In addition, the buildup in
steam pressure forces the radiator cap open, bleeding coolant,
therefore making the situation worse.

The second issue is that of water pump cavitation and surge. If the
pump is operated at high RPM with insufficient head pressure
(provided by the frictional losses in the coolant passages and the
thermostat), there is a great likelihood that the pump will either
cavitate (localized boiling and/or degassing on the impeller) or
surge (an unstable flow regime). Either phenomena is destructive.
Cavitation's collapsing bubbles act like little sand blaster,
eroding away impeller material. Surge can do the same thing and in
addition, can vibration stress the impeller enough to break it.
Many times what looks like corrosion damage to the impeller,
especially when the housing is damage-free, is actually cavitation
damage.

The myth of velocity originated among those unschooled in physics or
thermodynamics, I suppose, because a common racer "solution" is to
press a fixed restriction into the thermostat housing neck when no
thermostat is desired. The conventional (but wrong) wisdom is that
the restriction "slows the water" as stated by the previous poster.
In reality, all it does is provide some more dynamic pressure in the
block by restricting the flow. The exact same result could be
accomplished (assuming the water pump doesn't surge or cavitate)
with a higher static pressure (cap pressure), assuming the system
could withstand it.
 
And to think I was going to agree with ya fj but that guy said it so even you could understand. Believe it or not they think about the physics of water flow when they build engines.:flipoff:

After I pinch them I drill a 1/8th inch hole in the thermostat right where that little flapper bypass thingy is.
 
The thermostat is also a valve, on a lot of import engines, there is a 2nd part to the valve that CLOSES when the thermostat opens up to direct water flow.

typical thermostat without 2nd valve
change-cars-thermostat-200X200.jpg


thermostat with 2nd valve, notice the disc at the end that the picture above does not have.
thermostat.gif


This disc at the bottom closes the bypass passage in the thermostat housing as the thermostat main valve opens up to allow cooler water to flow from the radiator back to the engine. If your engine uses this type of thermostat, removing it is a Bad Thing(c) because the thermostat directs the water flow.
 
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