Thoughts & Ideas

Wildman1 · Oct 16, 2007

So lets hear your ideas on my upcoming D60 build.

So I am sure you all know about the fun I have had with my Tera CRD60. Well RockCrawler gave me his old D60 rear housing. So I am going to take that and have it narrow a little. Then because it is setup for Full Floater already I'll run a FF setup. I will get some new shafts and have them narrowed. Because I am trying to keep the Jeep some what street legal I am thinking around 60-61" WMS to WMS. I need to build a bracket to mount the Nth Degree stinger onto. More to come on that later.

Then before I do anything else stupid and break another ring gear I am moving my Tera CRD60 to the front. Not because my HP44 isn't holding up but the other way around. I keep breaking that HP60 so it needs to move to the front before I break it again. Going to have new tubes pressed in for the front. Then thinking about SpyderTrax Ultimate 60 knuckles. They are the same cost as new inner "C" & outer knuckles. The only issue is that you have to run the Ford unit bearing hubs. So if I have a 60" rear axle what width do I want for the front? 62"?

KarlVP · Oct 16, 2007

Just one quick question. Why are you putting your problematic 60 in the front?

Not saying it won't work or anything, but did you diagnose and fix the problem, before swapping it to the front?

Wildman1 · Oct 16, 2007

KarlVP said:
Just one quick question. Why are you putting your problematic 60 in the front?

Not saying it won't work or anything, but did you diagnose and fix the problem, before swapping it to the front?

Karl, The housing is being checked out before anything is done. But the main reason I have been having issues that everyone else is saying is becuase I am running a HP axle in the rear. So as long as the center chunk is okay I'll run it in the front.

benw1 · Oct 16, 2007

Nothing wrong with the Ford unit bearing hubs in a trail rig, they should hold up just fine.

I think I said this before, but I have 63" wide axles, 8" wide wheels with 4.5" of backspacing and 37x12.50 tires. The width is perfect, 6" wide TJ flares just cover the tread.

I would recommend at least 62" or 63" wide front axle, any narrower than that and you are going to have to limit your steering alot to keep the tires off the control arms and frame.

crash2 · Oct 16, 2007

benw said:
Nothing wrong with the Ford unit bearing hubs in a trail rig, they should hold up just fine.

Doesn't yukon offer a high strength stub shaft for those now?

Wildman1 · Oct 16, 2007

crash said:
Doesn't yukon offer a high strength stub shaft for those now?

Mike,
I think your correct. Any thoughts on the SpyderTrax stuff?

And since we are here how about this debate;
Detroit Locker?
ARB Locker?

Moneypit1 · Oct 16, 2007

I strongly think that 62 inches is the minimum width you'ld want for both axles.

Secondly, go Detroits both ends. ARBs have too many little things that can go wrong, Keep It Simple Stupid. No air lines, compressors, switches, fittings, etc.

Thirdly, the high pinion WILL work in the rear, I have a Pro Rock, with a V8, Atlas, 37s, etc etc and have not had ANY issues with tons of abuse. I don't think it's the 'high pinion' that's your issue, but rather it's the 'axle' itself - bad machining, bent tubes, something - so either install this FF replacement and leave your 44 alone (sell that turd 60) or find out what was actually wrong with it and re-install it in the rear.

Tech Tim · Oct 16, 2007

benw said:
I think I said this before, but I have 63" wide axles, 8" wide wheels with 4.5" of backspacing and 37x12.50 tires. The width is perfect, 6" wide TJ flares just cover the tread.

I would recommend at least 62" or 63" wide front axle, any narrower than that and you are going to have to limit your steering alot to keep the tires off the control arms and frame.

x2....

63"s is about the narrowest you can comfortably go with TJ bracketry on the front end.

Spidertrax stuff is definitely very, very nice, but they are the first ones to say their knuckles are for competition use and they're not sure how much they would reccomend them for the street due to the sperical bearings used in place of a king pin or ball joint.

We've got both the Spidertrax and Dedenbear knucks in stock if you wanna stop in and compare them Rick.

Wildman1 · Oct 16, 2007

Moneypit said:
I strongly think that 62 inches is the minimum width you'ld want for both axles.

Secondly, go Detroits both ends. ARBs have too many little things that can go wrong, Keep It Simple Stupid. No air lines, compressors, switches, fittings, etc.

Thirdly, the high pinion WILL work in the rear, I have a Pro Rock, with a V8, Atlas, 37s, etc etc and have not had ANY issues with tons of abuse. I don't think it's the 'high pinion' that's your issue, but rather it's the 'axle' itself - bad machining, bent tubes, something - so either install this FF replacement and leave your 44 alone (sell that turd 60) or find out what was actually wrong with it and re-install it in the rear.

Well I don't feel putting that CRD back into the rear of my TJ is the right idea. Even if it was to all check out I still wouldn't feel right about installing it again in the rear. It has out lived it's welcome in the rear of my TJ. And yes I hear 50% telling me it CAN"T BE the HP part it has to be this housing & then the other 50% saying no matter what I do it is a HP axle and I will break it.
Done that, Broke it, Fixed it, Broke it, And not going to do that again!!

Tech Tim said:
x2....

63"s is about the narrowest you can comfortably go with TJ bracketry on the front end.

Spidertrax stuff is definitely very, very nice, but they are the first ones to say their knuckles are for competition use and they're not sure how much they would reccomend them for the street due to the sperical bearings used in place of a king pin or ball joint.

We've got both the Spidertrax and Dedenbear knucks in stock if you wanna stop in and compare them Rick.

Tim,
Cool I'll stop by and if I decide to go with the SpiderTrax stuff I'll go thru you.
Rick

Not Jobless · Oct 16, 2007

Wildman said:
The only issue is that you have to run the Ford unit bearing hubs.

What's wrong with Ford unit bearing hubs?

I've been running ones I got from the junkyard for about 7 years now...with the stock 31 spline stubs...

Not Jobless · Oct 16, 2007

crash said:
Doesn't yukon offer a high strength stub shaft for those now?

I think Superior may as well, but speaking from experience the stock ones work just fine and they're cheap.

I picked up a spare set for $40.

pokey · Oct 16, 2007

isnt that rear 60 the one troy was spinning the tubes in:eeek:

Wildman1 · Oct 16, 2007

Jobless said:
What's wrong with Ford unit bearing hubs?

I've been running ones I got from the junkyard for about 7 years now...with the stock 31 spline stubs...

Well hot dicky damn!!

Brad won't give me CRAP about one part on my Jeep!! :haha: :haha: :haha: What the hell am I going to do now?? :wtf:

pokey said:
isnt that rear 60 the one troy was spinning the tubes in:eeek:

Jim,
Yes it is the same axle, but I am going to have the tubes pressed back out, cut off a few inches and then pressed back in. Then have the tubes welded back in place PLUS have the tube welded around the center housing.

Rick

briejer · Oct 16, 2007

When I put 60's under my TJ I went 65" front and rear. I highly recomend you go wide as you can on the front so you can fit all the TJ brakets on. You can always change backspace on your rims to get it narrow.

Remember that the new bling Spider Trax knuckle with the right U-joint/axle combo can turn up to 60 degrees. Your 44 you have now probably turns 30 degrees. A wider front axle will let you turn sharper. It would suck to put a bunch of time and money into a front axle and find out it's to narrow to take advantage of all your turning potential.

Wildman1 · Oct 16, 2007

briejer said:
When I put 60's under my TJ I went 65" front and rear. I highly recomend you go wide as you can on the front so you can fit all the TJ brakets on. You can always change backspace on your rims to get it narrow.

Remember that the new bling Spider Trax knuckle with the right U-joint/axle combo can turn up to 60 degrees. Your 44 you have now probably turns 30 degrees. A wider front axle will let you turn sharper. It would suck to put a bunch of time and money into a front axle and find out it's to narrow to take advantage of all your turning potential.

Well yes I can always backspace my rims. I know that where I am at with my front axle now is about as wide as I'd like. And the HP44 I have is just about 62" wide. Which puts me at 76" outside tire to tire. And that is as wide as I want. I am not sure how to gain that extra steering angle with the stockish steering setup. How do you get more turning ability out of a steering box?

And the Ultimate 60 is 50 degrees where the 1550 is 60 degrees.

briejer · Oct 17, 2007

I'll bet you steering box has more to offer than you think. Also the length of the drag link and steering arm will effect steering geometry. I never had good steering til I got Mog axles, now you can get better steering than a Mog with the Spider trax stuff....take full advantage of it!!!!

pbmcauliffe · Oct 17, 2007

The Ultimate 60 knuckles can get about 45* with normal 60 shafts, up to 50* with their Ultimate 60 shafts and joints, the 1550 stuff goes 57-60* with their axles and joint system.

PORTER · Oct 17, 2007

pokey said:
isnt that rear 60 the one troy was spinning the tubes in:eeek:

You might want to rethink using that free axle. Reason being is that the housing is probably egged out and if you try and press new tubes in it it will most likely fail. Mine did the same thing after about 2 years of abuse. I had mine welded up like Troys and I know that it will be a problem sooner than later. BTW, my buddy still has that 60 I told ya about for 500 or so. 5:13s,spooled,disc braked, 8lug.

Not Jobless · Oct 17, 2007

Wildman said:
Well yes I can always backspace my rims. I know that where I am at with my front axle now is about as wide as I'd like. And the HP44 I have is just about 62" wide. Which puts me at 76" outside tire to tire. And that is as wide as I want. I am not sure how to gain that extra steering angle with the stockish steering setup. How do you get more turning ability out of a steering box?

And the Ultimate 60 is 50 degrees where the 1550 is 60 degrees.

Why do you need 45 - 60 degrees for a trail rig?

It's been mentioned before, to use that much steering on your Jeep your front axle is going to have to be almost fullsize width in order to keep the tires from digging in to the frame and suspension while turning.

Wildman1 · Oct 17, 2007

Jobless said:
Why do you need 45 - 60 degrees for a trail rig?

It's been mentioned before, to use that much steering on your Jeep your front axle is going to have to be almost fullsize width in order to keep the tires from digging in to the frame and suspension while turning.

Never said I need 50 degrees. Just stating what SpyderTrax lists the knuckles at.