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My point is not bag on any configuration or leafs for that matter. Every suspension has a place and a "use" the inverted 4 link is by no means the "end all be all" of suspension designs. but having tried every configuration it seems to offer the most predictability and driveability to the end user. I just wanted to make it a point on the info on Pirate. he info is good it just matters how you want to apply it. according to the link calculator my old car would not work and had AS #'s through the roof. it worked fine... infact was one of the best Cars I have drivin (mostly because it was mine :redneck. But I was use to it's "quirks" and took advantage of them. the link calculator... Oh boy.... is it a good tool?.... Could be... has a ton of potental. Fantastic for giving numbers on flat ground. the only things it can give you is your push pull points roll axis, roll center, and anti squat..... all those points only matter on how and where they are pushing on your COG... where is that?... and when most ppl use the calculator how are they figuring the COG. and if you think about it they will only build one buggy in there life so where would they start on figuing this out when most the time they are designing a suspension first. if that is the case than how can you figure out how to apply these push parameters to the COG when it is TBD or a "best guess" so how does this help the end user? I guess it gives them a false sense of security knowing that they "ran the numbers" and some guy on pirate that talks in every suspension thread said it was good. what has that person built? what made him the higher power to givethe nod. I know this is long winded but the point is do not believe ANYthing you read on there. Ues the info than find out for yourself. Watch other configurations (which I assume you do) and drive them and draw your own conclusion to what you want and like. I have tried every configuration and planted my feet on what I liked performance wise. is it the best? For me yes but not for everyone. 2 examples... here is Daves KOH car.... dual triangulation (with out inverted lowers) http://www.snfab.com/projects/daves/daves037.JPG and here is mine (invrted 4 link with slight upper triangulation) http://www.snfab.com/projects/jasonc/jasonc101.JPG dave tried something on his last car and wanted to carry it on to this one. Does it work better? depends. his is smoother on the the fast chop since he has lower AS but his roll center is different but he prefers the feel. what he gave up is the ability to crawl verts My car was un changed in the rocks but I get beat a little harder in the fast stuff. we each have to drive around a different flaw. but his car has some lighter parts and his motor is back 4" further than mine.. all those play into the equasion. I think the biggest flaw in suspension building that people miss is not seeing the project as a whole.. and just focusing on one part. being the suspension or the power or the look or architecture of the rig. you have to comprimise everywhere so the rig works in unison or it will not work at all. There is a big difference between a guy that talks about suspension all day and the guys who actually build them all day. :smile:
My point is not bag on any configuration or leafs for that matter. Every suspension has a place and a "use" the inverted 4 link is by no means the "end all be all" of suspension designs. but having tried every configuration it seems to offer the most predictability and driveability to the end user. I just wanted to make it a point on the info on Pirate. he info is good it just matters how you want to apply it. according to the link calculator my old car would not work and had AS #'s through the roof. it worked fine... infact was one of the best Cars I have drivin (mostly because it was mine :redneck. But I was use to it's "quirks" and took advantage of them.
the link calculator... Oh boy.... is it a good tool?.... Could be... has a ton of potental. Fantastic for giving numbers on flat ground. the only things it can give you is your push pull points roll axis, roll center, and anti squat..... all those points only matter on how and where they are pushing on your COG... where is that?... and when most ppl use the calculator how are they figuring the COG. and if you think about it they will only build one buggy in there life so where would they start on figuing this out when most the time they are designing a suspension first. if that is the case than how can you figure out how to apply these push parameters to the COG when it is TBD or a "best guess" so how does this help the end user? I guess it gives them a false sense of security knowing that they "ran the numbers" and some guy on pirate that talks in every suspension thread said it was good. what has that person built? what made him the higher power to givethe nod. I know this is long winded but the point is do not believe ANYthing you read on there. Ues the info than find out for yourself. Watch other configurations (which I assume you do) and drive them and draw your own conclusion to what you want and like. I have tried every configuration and planted my feet on what I liked performance wise. is it the best? For me yes but not for everyone. 2 examples... here is Daves KOH car.... dual triangulation (with out inverted lowers) http://www.snfab.com/projects/daves/daves037.JPG
and here is mine (invrted 4 link with slight upper triangulation)
http://www.snfab.com/projects/jasonc/jasonc101.JPG
dave tried something on his last car and wanted to carry it on to this one. Does it work better? depends. his is smoother on the the fast chop since he has lower AS but his roll center is different but he prefers the feel. what he gave up is the ability to crawl verts My car was un changed in the rocks but I get beat a little harder in the fast stuff. we each have to drive around a different flaw. but his car has some lighter parts and his motor is back 4" further than mine.. all those play into the equasion. I think the biggest flaw in suspension building that people miss is not seeing the project as a whole.. and just focusing on one part. being the suspension or the power or the look or architecture of the rig. you have to comprimise everywhere so the rig works in unison or it will not work at all. There is a big difference between a guy that talks about suspension all day and the guys who actually build them all day. :smile: