Coil overs or not ? Update ORI's installed and tuned whoooooo!!

Chuck19 · Apr 6, 2014

I have a toyota truggy with coil springs and bilisten shocks its four linked in rear and three linked in front .
I get a lot of body roll and does not handle like would like when the going gets rough and bouncy I'm wondering should I upgrade the shocks or start over and go coil overs front and rear ? Currently it is very flexible and has good downward travel but only about 4-5inches of upward travel as best I can tell.
I have decided to go with ORI struts instead of coilovers wish me luck I will post pics and review after I get them installed .

TBItoy · Apr 6, 2014

Re: Re: Coil overs or not ?

Looks like a nice rig

Coilovers alone will not solve body roll,

but if you got the coin, a little suspension re-do and some good coilovers with correct spring rates and tuning will make it a whole different rig I'd bet.

Mortalis5509 · Apr 7, 2014

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Front and rear sway bars?

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kushKrawlin · Apr 7, 2014

Re: Coil overs or not ?

I really like my ORI's. Alot more room left when ya get done and dam i love adjustable ****. Cant go wrong with em. IMO wouldnt trade em for anything else!

DirtMonkey · Apr 8, 2014

Re: Coil overs or not ?

Yeah, coilovers wont help, in fact they will probably make it worse (coilovers push) I have heard great things about the ORIs with eliminating this...have no first hand experience though

bigs10blazer · Apr 8, 2014

Re: Coil overs or not ?

ORIs are not all that, i do not like mine and have had lots of trouble, (rebuilt 3 times) so dont just jump in and buy them thinking they will save the day

Neal3000 · Apr 8, 2014

Re: Coil overs or not ?

I think coilovers angled in some towards the center of the axles would help quite a bit

TacomaJD · Apr 8, 2014

Re: Coil overs or not ?

DirtMonkey said:
Yeah, coilovers wont help, in fact they will probably make it worse (coilovers push) I have heard great things about the ORIs with eliminating this...have no first hand experience though

I think you are mixed up between coilovers and air shocks. Air shocks unload or "push", coilovers are essentially the same exact thing he already has (coil springs and an emulsion shock), just packaged differently. Coilovers having dual rate spring setup is 10 times better than what you will get out of one single coil spring setup like he has now....if tuned correctly of course.

TBItoy said:
Looks like a nice rig

Coilovers alone will not solve body roll,

but if you got the coin, a little suspension re-do and some good coilovers with correct spring rates and tuning will make it a whole different rig I'd bet.

I 2nd this. It won't be cheap to make the swap and it's not like you can sell the old parts you take off for very much, to put toward new suspension components, but there's no doubt it would be better. You just have to weigh out $$$ vs. benefits over it's current form.

TacomaJD · Apr 8, 2014

Re: Coil overs or not ?

bigs10blazer said:
ORIs are not all that, i do not like mine and have had lots of trouble, (rebuilt 3 times) so dont just jump in and buy them thinking they will save the day

I'm still not sold on the ORI's. As the great Adam Lee once said, "They ain't nothin' but churched up air shocks!" molaugh

RustyC · Apr 9, 2014

Re: Coil overs or not ?

I agree that coilovers will not fix bad suspension geometry. But they can be tuned to help. Kind of like treating a symptom and not a disease.
Mounting the shocks angled in at the top is so that when the one corner is a full bump and the opposite corner is drooped out the shock has not past 90*. Right where the shock hits 91* the shock looses its ability to be effective. Hard for me to explain but very obvious if I can find a picture or two.
Getting the correct springs and setting the dual rate slider stop in the right spot will help a ton. The chassis will work off both springs until the slider hits the stop, at this point the suspension will stiffen and feel more stable.

In these pictures below, if the upper mounts were further inward it would help.

TacomaJD · Apr 9, 2014

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^^^ nailed it.

By mounting the top shock mounts inward, the shock is compressing more with body roll, providing more resistance to help stop the body roll, progressively. When they are more straight up and down like the first picture above, the top mounts move out toward the outside of the vehicle and shock compression travel is not as great as it would be if they were mounted more inward at the top, providing less resistance to help slow body roll.

Elliott · Apr 9, 2014

Re: Coil overs or not ?

One of the best things you can do for coil overs is cut the slider stops off, they serve no purpose what so ever.you need to let the springs compress and do they're jobs.

wont work · Apr 9, 2014

Re: Coil overs or not ?

kushKrawlin said:
I really like my ORI's. Alot more room left when ya get done and dam i love adjustable ****. Cant go wrong with em. IMO wouldnt trade em for anything else!

Will not go back to a coilover. have maybe 1/2 day of goofing off at the shop on tuning and they ride and perform nice.

kushKrawlin · Apr 9, 2014

Re: Coil overs or not ?

Agreed. JD if we ride sometime together you will be sold on them when I take you for a ride. They are amazing once ya figure out the pressures you need to run. They even handle very well on the street when adjusted properly. My two main things are the adjustability, and you don't have all that other b/s to put under your truck.. Being able to lower and raise the vehicle for different types of situations is amazing not only that, but it takes me about 2 minutes to have it at full bump which makes it so much easier to work on and get in the garage. Although I'm speaking only from experience with ORI, never had coil overs, probably never will unless I buy read with them already on there. Just my opinion tho. I can tell you when mounted properly there is nobody roll, and like stated there's no pushoff affect like im guessing with springs. Guess it would depend on your driving style also, I have no idea how they would hold up on some of the buggies.

TBItoy · Apr 9, 2014

Re: Re: Re: Coil overs or not ?

Elliott said:
One of the best things you can do for coil overs is cut the slider stops off, they serve no purpose what so ever.you need to let the springs compress and do they're jobs.

You saying to eliminate the dual rate?

So you don't have a step up rate?

al1tonyota · Apr 9, 2014

Re: Coil overs or not ?

Elliott said:
One of the best things you can do for coil overs is cut the slider stops off, they serve no purpose what so ever.you need to let the springs compress and do they're jobs.

that is the craziest thing I've ever heard! :gtfo:

TacomaJD said:
I'm still not sold on the ORI's. As the great Adam Lee once said, "They ain't nothin' but churched up air shocks!"

This! I was about to type this very thing!

al1tonyota · Apr 9, 2014

Re: Coil overs or not ?

To the original question you have a pretty big vehicle they body roll more a swaybar will help you the most! As far as bouncing all over going fast coilovers are more tunable than either type of air shock these folks are talking about! But you have to keep in mind a big vehicle isn't as easy to make go fast as something smaller. How much does it weigh?

TacomaJD · Apr 9, 2014

Re: Re: Re: Coil overs or not ?

kushKrawlin said:
Agreed. JD if we ride sometime together you will be sold on them when I take you for a ride. They are amazing once ya figure out the pressures you need to run. They even handle very well on the street when adjusted properly. My two main things are the adjustability, and you don't have all that other b/s to put under your truck.. Being able to lower and raise the vehicle for different types of situations is amazing not only that, but it takes me about 2 minutes to have it at full bump which makes it so much easier to work on and get in the garage. Although I'm speaking only from experience with ORI, never had coil overs, probably never will unless I buy read with them already on there. Just my opinion tho. I can tell you when mounted properly there is nobody roll, and like stated there's no pushoff affect like im guessing with springs. Guess it would depend on your driving style also, I have no idea how they would hold up on some of the buggies.

I just have read an awful lot about folks having to rebuild them. Not just this thread, but all over forums. ORI is the same as an air shock on compression, it just also has the rebound chamber that prevents the crazy unloading you get with normal air shocks. I understand how they work and it's pretty ingenius. My air shocks on the rear ride so smooth, it's great, they just unload. So by theory, ORI's would be the answer between the two. However, I think there are benefits to be reaped by the progression of dual spring rates on a coilover, that will never be achieved by a shock that incorporates an "air spring" only.

I've still gotta actually trail test my rig with the new coilovers on the front (and airs on the rear), to see exactly how it does, but just driving in the yard, it feels crazy stable compared to before, rides good, and body roll is gone as far as I could tell. I expected it to be better after being linked in the front, but did not expect it to be that much better. Still, some of that could change once I twist it up on some junk in the woods. Won't know for certain until it is wheeled....which will hopefully be this weekend.

BUG-E J · Apr 9, 2014

Re: Re: Re: Coil overs or not ?

TacomaJD said:
I just have read an awful lot about folks having to rebuild them. Not just this thread, but all over forums. ORI is the same as an air shock on compression, it just also has the rebound chamber that prevents the crazy unloading you get with normal air shocks. I understand how they work and it's pretty ingenius. My air shocks on the rear ride so smooth, it's great, they just unload. So by theory, ORI's would be the answer between the two. However, I think there are benefits to be reaped by the progression of dual spring rates on a coilover, that will never be achieved by a shock that incorporates an "air spring" only.

I've still gotta actually trail test my rig with the new coilovers on the front (and airs on the rear), to see exactly how it does, but just driving in the yard, it feels crazy stable compared to before, rides good, and body roll is gone as far as I could tell. I expected it to be better after being linked in the front, but did not expect it to be that much better. Still, some of that could change once I twist it up on some junk in the woods. Won't know for certain until it is wheeled....which will hopefully be this weekend.

Its because of who tuned your shocks. Coilovers are garbage out of the box. Springs wont make them "right". I am not on the ori bandwagon though

al1tonyota · Apr 9, 2014

Re: Coil overs or not ?

I have one more question also what is the extra stuff you have to deal with with a coilover? Emulsion coilovers are the same size as the ori air shocks at the top? You don't need remote resi's unless you plan on going real fast over rough stuff for a long time like more than 15-20 min without stopping or slowing down!