Coil overs or not ? Update ORI's installed and tuned whoooooo!!

[Elliott]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

You saying to eliminate the dual rate?

So you don't have a step up rate?

No, not eliminate the dual rate, of course you need the dual spring setup, but if you limit the travel of the top spring what are you really accomplishing? The springs when they compress build pressure which overcome each other (when the top spring collapses so does the bottom, just not at the same rate) The top spring will collapse way before the bottom, but if you limit the travel of the top spring and not let it compress the lower spring gradually then when it hits the stop it starts compressing the lower spring at the same time of a sudden slammed stop from the top, Kinda like smacking the lower spring with a hammer and compressing it in the middle of doing so.
My theory is you need to smoothly compress both springs at the same time to keep it from having a sudden jolt to the shock, and it makes diagnosing shock valving a lot easier due to not feeling sudden hits from the stops hitting. This is also why they always say not to have to big of a difference between top and bottom springs, The top springs are really for your ride and both springs together for the big hits. Theres a fine line in messing with shocks,

 

[Elliott]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

Theres more than one way to do these tho and im far from being an expert on coil overs, but I do believe they are the only real way to go bar nothing.

 

[TacomaJD]

Re: Re: Re: Coil overs or not ?

Theres more than one way to do these tho and im far from being an expert on coil overs, but I do believe they are the only real way to go bar nothing.

I agree there. Glad I went with coilovers when linking my front end. I did not want to cut any corners, read a **** ton on them, and Jimmy Penner sent me the right setup, and I'm happy. Air shocks can be manageable if you are looking to save money, but they will never out perform a coilover. ORI's are higher than coilovers, aren't they? (New, of course).

 

[tallnate]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

Are you running a rear limit strap? One easy way to combat body roll is to run a tight center limit strap. When the rear flexes, the center strap will pull tension on the body back down towards the axle and keep the body more level during articulation.

Also, it looks like your rear shocks are limiting your uptravel instead of the coil bumps. If so, move the upper mounts higher to get more up travel.

 

[kmcminn]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

Elliot, you lost credibility with the one statement about getting rid of sliders. Sorry

 

[86tank]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

I have one more question also what is the extra stuff you have to deal with with a coilover? Emulsion coilovers are the same size as the ori air shocks at the top? You don't need remote resi's unless you plan on going real fast over rough stuff for a long time like more than 15-20 min without stopping or slowing down!

I think most people are referring to stuff like air bumps and limit straps. And changing springs when tuning if they don't get it right out of the box.

 

[Elliott]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

Not the sliders. The spanner nuts that set you preload on your slider. I've got a year and a half on a set of kings like this and they work great. I never thought about it till a shop around here that just does shock tuning, explained it to us after they did a valve adjustment and ran them on they're shock dyno.

 

[TBItoy]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

No, not eliminate the dual rate, of course you need the dual spring setup, but if you limit the travel of the top spring what are you really accomplishing? The springs when they compress build pressure which overcome each other (when the top spring collapses so does the bottom, just not at the same rate) The top spring will collapse way before the bottom, but if you limit the travel of the top spring and not let it compress the lower spring gradually then when it hits the stop it starts compressing the lower spring at the same time of a sudden slammed stop from the top, Kinda like smacking the lower spring with a hammer and compressing it in the middle of doing so.
My theory is you need to smoothly compress both springs at the same time to keep it from having a sudden jolt to the shock, and it makes diagnosing shock valving a lot easier due to not feeling sudden hits from the stops hitting. This is also why they always say not to have to big of a difference between top and bottom springs, The top springs are really for your ride and both springs together for the big hits. Theres a fine line in messing with shocks,

Not sure I completely agree with your theory on spring tuning, but it's interesting.

Essentially you are discussing a single spring rate, accomplished using 2 coils.

You are saying to let the top spring (lighter rate spring) block out (fully compress till the coils touch) before the bottom spring rate takes effect...



Seems like that would cause a lot of body roll if you ran a light enough spring setup to ride good... dunno.

Not the sliders. The spanner nuts that set you preload on your slider. I've got a year and a half on a set of kings like this and they work great. I never thought about it till a shop around here that just does shock tuning, explained it to us after they did a valve adjustment and ran them on they're shock dyno.

That would be the "dual rate stops"

Just curious, does the shop you are referring to do mainly off-road long travel tuning? or dirt track car tuning?

 

[Elliott]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

I just typed two paragraphs explaining this then hit the wrong button in my phone and lost it, I will redo it in the morning when I get to my shop.

 

[drkelly]

Re: Coil overs or not

You would most likely benefit greatly from the addition of a sway bar.

 

[BUG-E J]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

I just typed two paragraphs explaining this then hit the wrong button in my phone and lost it, I will redo it in the morning when I get to my shop.

I raced with people that didn't have the stop for the upper coil compression. That's a fix if you don't have the shock right in valving so it doesn't bottom out.

You would most likely benefit greatly from the addition of a sway bar.

If your coilovers are "right" you don't need swaybars.

 

[TacomaJD]

Re: Re: Re: Coil overs or not ?

I just typed two paragraphs explaining this then hit the wrong button in my phone and lost it, I will redo it in the morning when I get to my shop.

Effing hate that. GD Tapatalk.


And for the update to all that knew how shitty my rig was before with ridiculously insane body roll, it is now offically gone. Linking the front and using coilovers on the front = now I can slang a fawkin haulin' ass doughnut in my yard like a flat bill Gayzr driver and now it does not lean the first bit! Holy balls, this guy is the happiest one legged sumbitch in 'Mericuh! I didn't even think it was possible to turn and not feel like I was about to flop!

^^^compliments of Jimmy Penner (EOR) and Angryfab!

 

[al1tonyota]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

I just typed two paragraphs explaining this then hit the wrong button in my phone and lost it, I will redo it in the morning when I get to my shop.

I'd like to hear how you feel about bypass shocks?

 

[snoball]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

I'm getting Coilovers in place of my oris soon. To set Oris up to eliminate body roll at high speeds the ride you want goes away. :****:

So what's y'all's opinion on 2.0 vs 2.5s? Most say 2.0 is good for 4000lb buggy but King, as well as a couple of other shops I have talked to say they would never put a 2.0 on a buggy that heavy.

 

[drkelly]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

I raced with people that didn't have the stop for the upper coil compression. That's a fix if you don't have the shock right in valving so it doesn't bottom out.If your coilovers are "right" you don't need swaybars.

The OP doesn't have coilovers though. He has coil springs and shocks. I think in his case, a sway bar would help.

 

[Elliott]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

I would live to have some bypass shocks just to play with, cause I really don't need then with the way I drive, there's no argument they are bad ass tho.

 

[Elliott]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

My coilovers are 2.0 King with res, and I bet my rig is at least 4,500.

 

[Neal3000]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

The OP doesn't have coilovers though. He has coil springs and shocks. I think in his case, a sway bar would help.

Tremendously! One in front of the rear axle would do it. There's a reason why racers use swaybars, when you start tuning your shocks to handle bodyroll then your taking away from what you really need your shocks to do- soaking up the hits and keeping the wheels on the ground. And the dual rate stopper plays a big role in shock/spring tuning, for trail riding you'd probably never miss it though

 

[Neal3000]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

I'm getting Coilovers in place of my oris soon. To set Oris up to eliminate body roll at high speeds the ride you want goes away. :****:

So what's y'all's opinion on 2.0 vs 2.5s? Most say 2.0 is good for 4000lb buggy but King, as well as a couple of other shops I have talked to say they would never put a 2.0 on a buggy that heavy.

The only real difference is the amount of oil they hold, if your not racing then theres really no need for 2.5's imo

 

[Elliott]

Re: Coil overs or not ?

Neal3000 what is the benefits of the dual rate stopper?