14 bolt front build thread and tech help

redneckengineered · Aug 11, 2016

The goal of this thread is to help me (and anyone else that may want to do this) build the strongest junkyard 14 bolt front using top shelf parts, no cutting corners, but saving money where I can by enlisting the help of buddies, friendly vendors, Obama, etc. It will also be a way for me to keep everything organized in one location so I can keep tabs on wtf I'm doing.

I'm going to be hitting up vendors along the way for competitive quotes and not just hit add to cart and pay retail if I can help it. If anyone in particular steps up with low pricing for a regular guy like myself I'll be sure to call them out for recognition. I know people are always asking what these kinds of builds cost so I'm going to document everything all the way down to the little bullshit like seals, studs, nuts, etc. I'm not cool like Batturdmobile Will who doesn't drive his own buggy up bounty hills but has **** given to him anyways so I'll be dishing out cash for everything since I'm just a no name trail rider/beer drinker/hell raiser with a lot of HP :****: I don't know it all and this is the first 14 bolt front I've built so feel free to throw in advice and tell me where I'm going wrong.

Here is what I have so far...

-Reid Racing super kingpin inner Cs and outer knuckles, 4" bore - $1635 shipped. Shoutout to waynehartwig (diffsonly.com) on Pirate4x4 for EXCELLENT pricing and customer service
-40 spline spool from 40spline.com - $549 shipped
-Billet 1410 pinion yoke from 40spline.com - $399 shipped
-Mark Williams 2nd gen u-bolts for billet yoke - $84.50 shipped
-2010 14 bolt axle w/4" factory tubes - $400
-Barnes 4wd 13 bolt high clearance cover - $140
-Ruffstuff pinion skid - $59.20 shipped (used a 20% off coupon when they ran a sale. Follow them on instagram if you want to know when they run discounts)
-4.56 Spicer SVL thick R&P - $222.43 shipped
-Timken diff rebuild kit DRK325A - $170.57 shipped (includes pinion seal, both carrier bearings w/races, crush sleeve but I will be going solid spacer, marking compound w/brush, pinion head and tail bearing w/races, pinion nut, pinion nose bearing, sealer and thread locker)
-Reid bronze bushings - $125 shipped
-12 ARP studs and nuts - $112 shipped
-Timken SP940200 unit bearings - $416.56 shipped from rockauto.com (pair)
-RCV shafts - 40 spline inners, big 2.5 ton size CV w/built in stub shaft - $3995 shipped RETAIL (Got a great price and excellent service from Skinny Pedal Racing Mortalis5509 on the board. Contact him for a quote).
-BTF lower kingpin kit - $200
-4" 1/2 wall tubing - $202
-Studs to bolt UBs to knuckles (Dorman 917-514) - $34.30 ebay
-Brakes - $398.90 shipped from rockauto.com

Rotors - Wagner BD126272E
Calipers - Wagner CRB140121 & CRB140120 (supposed to include hardware and mounting bracket)
Pads - Wagner MX1069

Things I need but haven't purchased and/or still getting quotes...

-axle seals to seal the carrier - what are all the options here?
-steering arms - the new Reid super kingpin knuckles use a 6 hole steering arm that no one is really advertising yet. I already have a vendor with a call into Reid on this.

What am I missing? I'll post up pictures along the way, most of my parts right now aren't even out of the boxes yet.

:dblthumb:

Badride · Aug 11, 2016

Who is doing the unit bearings? This is a good idea. I will be watching. :woot:

bbtank45 · Aug 11, 2016

Subscribed.....i like the way you prefaced the thread.

Not that i will be building one anytime soon, but i'm curious as to your final build costs.

Will you retube and jig yourself?

redneckengineered · Aug 11, 2016

Badride said:
Who is doing the unit bearings? This is a good idea. I will be watching.

I may need some advice here but I'm pretty sure all I will need are off the shelf 05+ Super Duty unit bearings and just redrill them to 8x6.5"

bbtank45 said:
Subscribed.....i like the way you prefaced the thread.

Not that i will be building one anytime soon, but i'm curious as to your final build costs.

Will you retube and jig yourself?

My hope is to do everything myself (or with the help of buddies) with the exception of final welding and build of the truss/steering.

Badride · Aug 11, 2016

redneckengineered said:
I may need some advice here but I'm pretty sure all I will need are off the shelf 05+ Super Duty unit bearings and just redrill them to 8x6.5"

The ones I see take a drive flange. Maybe I am missing something. :dunno:

FlatlandFSJ · Aug 11, 2016

I looked for a while, talked to a few guys about shafts for my f550 knuckles. Best I could come up with for shafts on both sides 40 spline/rockwell cv/direct engagement was about 4500-5k. That's loosely based on Yoders U4 front build and I'm pretty sure he had some help directly from rcv and reid.

I'm working on machining down a set of dana 80 hubs to use as drive flanges/8 lug adapters for my 10 unit bearings. Violator stubs bring the beef when compared to that direct engagement rcv stub, they neck down pretty small before the bell.

As far as the unit bearings, you just redrill to 8x6.5, JJ makes a nifty little guide plate that bolts to the 8x170 pattern.

Looking forward to the build, I don't think many people have actually done it yet, plenty of talk about the super knuckles, but i think Yoder is the only that is actually running them now.

FlatlandFSJ · Aug 11, 2016

Badride said:
The ones I see take a drive flange. Maybe I am missing something.

1999417d1447196371-reid-super-kingpin-knuckle-rcv-fitment-6.jpg

Badride · Aug 11, 2016

FlatlandFSJ said:

So where did that one come from?

redneckengineered · Aug 11, 2016

Badride said:
The ones I see take a drive flange. Maybe I am missing something.

You can get a stub from RCV that engages the unit bearing directly. It looks like there may be some sort of dust cover that bolts on but no drive flange.

FlatlandFSJ said:
I looked for a while, talked to a few guys about shafts for my f550 knuckles. Best I could come up with for shafts on both sides 40 spline/rockwell cv/direct engagement was about 4500-5k. That's loosely based on Yoders U4 front build and I'm pretty sure he had some help directly from rcv and reid.

I'm working on machining down a set of dana 80 hubs to use as drive flanges/8 lug adapters for my 10 unit bearings. Violator stubs bring the beef when compared to that direct engagement rcv stub, they neck down pretty small before the bell.

You think? It still looks pretty massive even at that neck down point. I'm going for simplicity here. No drive flanges, no spindles, spindle nuts, and all the BS that goes with it.

redneckengineered · Aug 11, 2016

Badride said:
So where did that one come from?

Decent tech thread on pirate

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-4x4-discussion/2134650-reid-super-kingpin-knuckle.html

I think the good pics are on page 3.

redneckengineered · Aug 11, 2016

Response from Reid regarding steering arm options for these knuckles but I have yet to find anything available online. In lieu of emailing every company I posted a thread on Pirate to see if any of them chime in.

We've given the arm dimensions drawing to many of our dealers who
manufacture arms. They use the same 5-stud pattern as
our Kingpin 60 knuckles (which use the same 4-stud pattern as the OEM
Kingpin 60 knuckles) but the double-shear hole location differs due to
the longer cast-in steering arm.

I believe that Artec, Synergy, Ballistic, Blue Torch, WFO, Precison
Fabrication Plus, and probably several others are making arms for these
now, but I can't stay on top of what every company makes. We just try
not to compete against our dealers by making parts that they can make.

EddieHall · Aug 12, 2016

The only issue I had redrilling the hubs is the studs will need 1/4 shaved off 1 side 8x6.5 OD is smaller then 170mm OD. I can send u sum pics.u might wanna ask jj wut studs he uses with his templates ..I used the blue torch steering arms with the 6 studs. u just need to make the outer 2 holes larger I worked with them on my build using solid knuckles I gave them my the dimensions that I used to machine them to fit over the bosses and now they sale them ready to go..let me no if u need anymore info

EddieHall · Aug 12, 2016

Pic 2

Beerj · Aug 12, 2016

I don't have any pics of it at the moment but I just took a little bit of material off of the backing/mounting plate. Right at that curve where it steps out.

paradisepwoffrd · Aug 12, 2016

Re: Re: 14 bolt front build thread and tech help

redneckengineered said:
Response from Reid regarding steering arm options for these knuckles but I have yet to find anything available online. In lieu of emailing every company I posted a thread on Pirate to see if any of them chime in.

We've given the arm dimensions drawing to many of our dealers who
manufacture arms. They use the same 5-stud pattern as
our Kingpin 60 knuckles (which use the same 4-stud pattern as the OEM
Kingpin 60 knuckles) but the double-shear hole location differs due to
the longer cast-in steering arm.

I believe that Artec, Synergy, Ballistic, Blue Torch, WFO, Precison
Fabrication Plus, and probably several others are making arms for these
now, but I can't stay on top of what every company makes. We just try
not to compete against our dealers by making parts that they can make.

Put a call into 4wheelsupply. They make some nice stuff at reasonable prices. I'm sure he could get it done.

TBItoy · Aug 12, 2016

redneckengineered said:
You can get a stub from RCV that engages the unit bearing directly. It looks like there may be some sort of dust cover that bolts on but no drive flange.

You think? It still looks pretty massive even at that neck down point. I'm going for simplicity here. No drive flanges, no spindles, spindle nuts, and all the BS that goes with it.

the shaft is probably still 2" diameter where it is necked down.

I don't think I'd worry about it too much.

paradisepwoffrd · Aug 12, 2016

Re: Re: 14 bolt front build thread and tech help

EddieHall said:
The only issue I had redrilling the hubs is the studs will need 1/4 shaved off 1 side 8x6.5 OD is smaller then 170mm OD. I can send u sum pics.u might wanna ask jj wut studs he uses with his templates ..I used the blue torch steering arms with the 6 studs. u just need to make the outer 2 holes larger I worked with them on my build using solid knuckles I gave them my the dimensions that I used to machine them to fit over the bosses and now they sale them ready to go..let me no if u need anymore info

What are you doing for rotors? Redrilling them also or is there a slip over 8x6.5 the same dimensions? I'm guessing that you are running superduty calipers?

Or are you running something smaller/lighter?

redneckengineered · Aug 12, 2016

Took another step this morning and ordered the the knuckles...inner Cs and outer knuckles. Also went ahead and got 12 ARP studs + nuts and the Reid bronze bushings because the price was right. I have to give a shout out to "waynehartwig" on Pirate4x4. That's his username but his website is www.DiffsOnly.com. I got several quotes on these parts and he was SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than everyone else. I didn't talk myself up or any BS, just sent him a PM and asked for a good deal and he delivered. I also spent about a day messaging back and forth with him with questions and he was very responsive. Great customer service. I'll update my original post as I check things off the list.

EddieHall said:
The only issue I had redrilling the hubs is the studs will need 1/4 shaved off 1 side 8x6.5 OD is smaller then 170mm OD. I can send u sum pics.u might wanna ask jj wut studs he uses with his templates ..I used the blue torch steering arms with the 6 studs. u just need to make the outer 2 holes larger I worked with them on my build using solid knuckles I gave them my the dimensions that I used to machine them to fit over the bosses and now they sale them ready to go..let me no if u need anymore info

Good to know. I will take a look when I get the UBs but I may just grind down on the backing plate like Beerj mentioned. I've got a good friend who runs a machine shop right down the road from me (Hudlow Axle) so I'll probably just have him redrill the UBs and save me the trouble.

TBItoy said:
the shaft is probably still 2" diameter where it is necked down.

I don't think I'd worry about it too much.

Kind of what I thought. It's hard to tell from pictures but that stub is 32 spline and approximately 2.5" in diameter so the neck down part is still massive in comparison to most anything else

redneckengineered · Aug 12, 2016

Re: Re: 14 bolt front build thread and tech help

paradisepwoffrd said:
Put a call into 4wheelsupply. They make some nice stuff at reasonable prices. I'm sure he could get it done.

I've got an email in with Reid now to send me the file for the arms. I was told they are willing to do this for their customers. I may work with a vendor to do something custom with a penis engraved in them or something. Already talked to Motobilt and he's interested. Dan is a wizard on the CAD. Pictured below is how my steering is currently configured. When I had my buggy built I was adamant about keeping my steering on top of the arms and you can see how high that keeps all my components. I like to run into **** so this has been nice to have. If you look closely I also have double shear tabs built in.

These Reid knuckles are taller than the standard 60 stuff so I may need to customize the arm to put me at the same height as my 60 arms were in order to make sure everything clears properly and I can maintain my uptravel. I'm also planning on having a keyway machined into the arms and knuckles. Reid insists that this isn't necessary but I like to plan for the worst and I like the piece of mind a keyway offers. My Crane high steer bolts have never loosened on me.