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Help Support Hardline Crawlers :
Diesel vs Gas
- Thread starter KarlVP
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Fullywrecked
Well-Known Member
Phat 40 said:Here is a spreadsheet I made up to help me make the decision. If your hanging onto a rig for a long time (5+ years) OR putting ALOT of miles on it per year than the diesel will pan out for you. Keep in mind that the chassis starts to get pretty rag'd out past 250K (unless your meticulous). So a motor that goes 500K is not of much use unless you like driving chitty chitty bang bang. I personaly chose the V-10. It will last as long as I own the truck, the milage (comparing Ford to Ford here, I bleed Hemi orange but Dodge wasnt there soon enough) between the two was insignificant. So far towing my 25' enclosed trailer (limited experiance so far no big hills yet) I get 10 MPG. I got 9.9 MPG going to Tillamook with the Jeep on the back at 70+ and a BUTT LOAD of gear (wood, camping supplies, three freaking kids and wife worth of stuff!). Plus the Excursion is as close to a school bus as I could get without driving a school bus.Now, when this rig is done I may find me an 05 diesel Excursion as that one will have to last me a long time as they dont make them anymore.
Hmm,, it wont let me upload the file so email me if you want it. It allows you to plug in all the factors of the purchase so its pretty accurate as to the PAY OFF of owning the diesel, or not.
I wouldn't buy an 05 excursion 6.0 if you want a diesel that will last a long time. Most vehicles will last fine over 250k unless you abuse them. I had a 96 with 245k and jumped in it and took a 2500 miles trip without batting an eye. Things wear out on any truck but keeping up on maint. is cheaping than buying a new one every 100k.:beer: I would never expect a gas engine to last towing the loads I tow with my very low maint, diesel.
wheelinjp
Well-Known Member
Hey Karl I say buy a gasser, the less people buying diesels the cheaper our fuel will go. I dont think a diesel is a well suited commuter with short trips it can prematurely wear out any diesel since it takes 15 minutes of running time to warm up a diesel to full operating temp so it prematurely wears out rings. It is very hard on them, and like you said you arent in a hurry to get there so rag the v8 gasser at 3500hun and getting the tranny hot. Just stay out of the hammer lane where the coal is rollin. a quote from my 5 year old son yesterday on the way home from daycare " SMOKE HIM DADDY ITS JUST A LIL GASSER HONDA HAHAHAHAHA YOU WON YOU WON!!!!!!Look he dissapeared HAHAHAHA" :hi:
Dear KarlVP;
Having owned gasoline, diesel, propane and natural gas fueled rigs, I would like to have an opinion on this subject, if I may. I happen to have a 1998 Toyota Hi-Lux with a diesel engine and it's an OK powerplant for what it is and what it does. All engines produce a peak amount of power, the secret being WHERE in the power band the maximum power is produced. Diesel engines produce their max torque at just off idle and they maintain it over a long RPM spread, which makes them ideal candidates for pulling or carrying heavy loads. Gasoline engines, on the other hand, tend to produce their max torque higher in the RPM band and they maintain max power for a much shorter duration, which means that they have to work harder in order to pull/carry the same load. Gasoline engines also suffer from decreasing fuel economy as the load increases, whereas diesel engines maintain a very stable economy from empty to maximum gross weight. I've had Toyota FJ-40s with B block diesels (I-4) H block diesels (I-6) and F series gasoline (I-6) engines and for a stock rig I much prefer a gasoline engine. If I build a rig with 35" tires then I shop around for an H block Toyota diesel to stab in. It's pretty cool to be able to idle over obstacles with my foot off of the accelerator pedal, but again, for me 35" tires is the cutoff point.
Your friend;
LAMAR
Having owned gasoline, diesel, propane and natural gas fueled rigs, I would like to have an opinion on this subject, if I may. I happen to have a 1998 Toyota Hi-Lux with a diesel engine and it's an OK powerplant for what it is and what it does. All engines produce a peak amount of power, the secret being WHERE in the power band the maximum power is produced. Diesel engines produce their max torque at just off idle and they maintain it over a long RPM spread, which makes them ideal candidates for pulling or carrying heavy loads. Gasoline engines, on the other hand, tend to produce their max torque higher in the RPM band and they maintain max power for a much shorter duration, which means that they have to work harder in order to pull/carry the same load. Gasoline engines also suffer from decreasing fuel economy as the load increases, whereas diesel engines maintain a very stable economy from empty to maximum gross weight. I've had Toyota FJ-40s with B block diesels (I-4) H block diesels (I-6) and F series gasoline (I-6) engines and for a stock rig I much prefer a gasoline engine. If I build a rig with 35" tires then I shop around for an H block Toyota diesel to stab in. It's pretty cool to be able to idle over obstacles with my foot off of the accelerator pedal, but again, for me 35" tires is the cutoff point.
Your friend;
LAMAR
PORTER
Well-Known Member
To my understanding this thread is mainly about diesel tow rigs, not wheeling rigs. That said its all about the big 3 meaning Izuzu(Duramax),Cummins(Dodge),and International(Ford) as these are the rigs that the general population chooses to tow with.Lamar said:
i got bored and skiped the last 4 pages so forgive me.
me i bought my 03 ram 3500 not to be cool (but it helped) or because i currently tow heavy (or at all), but down the road i plan to. i looked realisticly and told my wife that id rather spend a few bucks more now and get a truck i wouldnt grow out of than have to keep ether buying a new truck every couple years , or make due with an under sized, under equiped truck. the truck i picked up was high milage, but had good records. for just over $20k i picked up a 300+hp truck that weighs over 4 tons an manages to throw down 20+ mpg empty in i5 gridlock. thats over 750 miles to a tank.
now take a look at any gasser truck, find me one that'll pull those #'s as a daily driver... then look at 1 tons w/ gass motors... even worse, now make it a 4x4.... oops lost a few more mpg.... see where im going with this.
now for a totaly diferent perspective.
a diesel truck buring dead dinos produces in a year less harmfull emisions than a small imprt car does in a week of comuting. now throw veggie fuel in it.. there goe's 90% of what little emisions it was puting out.. got to look out for my boy's future to ya know.
so yha. decision for me was an easy one..... diesel, that and it doesnt hurt that for the same cost of a gas tuner that adds all of 15hp you can have one for a diesel that adds almost 200hp, 400+ ft/lbs, oh and did i mention gets it better fuel economy?
me i bought my 03 ram 3500 not to be cool (but it helped) or because i currently tow heavy (or at all), but down the road i plan to. i looked realisticly and told my wife that id rather spend a few bucks more now and get a truck i wouldnt grow out of than have to keep ether buying a new truck every couple years , or make due with an under sized, under equiped truck. the truck i picked up was high milage, but had good records. for just over $20k i picked up a 300+hp truck that weighs over 4 tons an manages to throw down 20+ mpg empty in i5 gridlock. thats over 750 miles to a tank.
now take a look at any gasser truck, find me one that'll pull those #'s as a daily driver... then look at 1 tons w/ gass motors... even worse, now make it a 4x4.... oops lost a few more mpg.... see where im going with this.
now for a totaly diferent perspective.
a diesel truck buring dead dinos produces in a year less harmfull emisions than a small imprt car does in a week of comuting. now throw veggie fuel in it.. there goe's 90% of what little emisions it was puting out.. got to look out for my boy's future to ya know.
so yha. decision for me was an easy one..... diesel, that and it doesnt hurt that for the same cost of a gas tuner that adds all of 15hp you can have one for a diesel that adds almost 200hp, 400+ ft/lbs, oh and did i mention gets it better fuel economy?
skinny_pedal
Well-Known Member
so heres my young .2cents. i just picked up a 76 ford f250 chateneu van w a 460:redneck: call me crazy but for as often as i need to tow my toy and where im towing it to, it works. plus the van itself is pimpin, i can sleep in it, haul crap with it, and its a pimpin van
also im ony 20, this thing was dirt fawkin cheap, was well maintained, and is cheap to insure. since i bought my car instead a of diesel this is where im at. maybe in a few years ill toss the van and get a diesel pickup, but until then im just gonna rock the van. and if i wanna go wheel in california ill proboly look into renting a big rig or putting it on a train
also im ony 20, this thing was dirt fawkin cheap, was well maintained, and is cheap to insure. since i bought my car instead a of diesel this is where im at. maybe in a few years ill toss the van and get a diesel pickup, but until then im just gonna rock the van. and if i wanna go wheel in california ill proboly look into renting a big rig or putting it on a trainSo, I bought a V10 excursion. . .cuz it had what I wanted, was well maintained, will pull a house, fits all the famdamnly and all their crap, was the right price, etc. . .
But, here's the thing. It sits 6 days a week. I'll probably put about 6k miles per year on it. Until the lotto cashes in, I couldn't possibly justify an extra 7K (45% increase over what I paid) for something that I only use once a week and for trips. Now, when I win the lotto, I am going straight to the bomber forum to figure out how to put a ginormous smoker in this pig so I can tow SCHOOLS. . .yeah. . .TOW SCHOOLS. That would rock.
EDIT: Here's another thing. . .Diesels SUCK at trick or treating. It was really cold here on "beg for candy day" and one of the neighbors was taking his kids around in his PSD Excursion. DAMN that thing was LOUD. It annoyed all the neighbors to no end. LOL
But, here's the thing. It sits 6 days a week. I'll probably put about 6k miles per year on it. Until the lotto cashes in, I couldn't possibly justify an extra 7K (45% increase over what I paid) for something that I only use once a week and for trips. Now, when I win the lotto, I am going straight to the bomber forum to figure out how to put a ginormous smoker in this pig so I can tow SCHOOLS. . .yeah. . .TOW SCHOOLS. That would rock.
EDIT: Here's another thing. . .Diesels SUCK at trick or treating. It was really cold here on "beg for candy day" and one of the neighbors was taking his kids around in his PSD Excursion. DAMN that thing was LOUD. It annoyed all the neighbors to no end. LOL
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messix
Well-Known Member
i've got a '99 3500 long bed crewcab 7.4L, best combined mpg is 10 unloaded. towing 28' toyhauler and jeep = 10klbs or more. best mpg towing 6.5 -7.
i can pull I90 at 60mph + even at vantage. i tows better and likes 70mph than 60 on the the flat,the bad is pull away power from a stop. it's hard on the engine and tranny.
i won't settle for any thing less than a proper tow rig the next time.
any one towing a wheeler on a trailer [avg. trail rig 3,5000 - 4,500 lbs + trailer 2,000lbs =a'bout 6,000 lbs] with any thing less than a 3/4 ton truck is asking for trouble [sure it can and has been done, and we've all drivin after a few to many insert your fav dui drink here, but its not the smartest thing to do].
p.s to get to buck meadows on manashtash rd i have to go to low range to pull the hills slow enough.
i can pull I90 at 60mph + even at vantage. i tows better and likes 70mph than 60 on the the flat,the bad is pull away power from a stop. it's hard on the engine and tranny.
i won't settle for any thing less than a proper tow rig the next time.
any one towing a wheeler on a trailer [avg. trail rig 3,5000 - 4,500 lbs + trailer 2,000lbs =a'bout 6,000 lbs] with any thing less than a 3/4 ton truck is asking for trouble [sure it can and has been done, and we've all drivin after a few to many insert your fav dui drink here, but its not the smartest thing to do].
p.s to get to buck meadows on manashtash rd i have to go to low range to pull the hills slow enough.
PORTER
Well-Known Member
I bet it would be safe to say that you are not getting 15 towing though.Jay1 said:
I tow long trips with a class b, 1 ton, 74 chinook rv, with a 454. Ir cruises the same with or with out a load at 65mph, must be the gears, although chinook pass does kinda suck. as for mileage 8, with or without the rig, its always alot of coin to take the camper on a trip, but it beats flyin or the cost of a new diesel. I think o've got about 4,1/2 k into it, and the whole family loves it. Plus its got a toilet i can puke in when i get siiiiiiick!
KarlVP
Love that TOYOTA
Bunk said:
Does this mean, because I will never use a tow rig, that I need a toilet in my TJ?
junkyard jim
Well-Known Member
binderbound
Well-Known Member
It was sealed for me about a month ago.
My old 02 cummins. My buddys 05 cummins. My other friends 98 360 gasser. Going from Salem, Or to bend Or over santiam pass. I had 8k, the 05 had 10k, gasser had 7k. The gasser couldn't do over 45mph. I had to sandbag just so I wouldn't lose em. I did the whole round trip on 1 tank. The gasser took 2.5 tanks. I will never tow distance with a gasser EVER again. My total mpg to moab last year was 15.2 towing 8200lbs and doing 5 over the posted mph. I love passing people going up hill with a trailer.
BTW, my new 06 will blow the doors off of my old 02(and it was bombed lightly), and I bet, it would smoke a fair majority of comperable gasser trucks out there today.
Yeah Rick, HP is HP but torque is what gets the party started. 610ft lbs eats everything else alive.
My old 02 cummins. My buddys 05 cummins. My other friends 98 360 gasser. Going from Salem, Or to bend Or over santiam pass. I had 8k, the 05 had 10k, gasser had 7k. The gasser couldn't do over 45mph. I had to sandbag just so I wouldn't lose em. I did the whole round trip on 1 tank. The gasser took 2.5 tanks. I will never tow distance with a gasser EVER again. My total mpg to moab last year was 15.2 towing 8200lbs and doing 5 over the posted mph. I love passing people going up hill with a trailer.
BTW, my new 06 will blow the doors off of my old 02(and it was bombed lightly), and I bet, it would smoke a fair majority of comperable gasser trucks out there today.
Yeah Rick, HP is HP but torque is what gets the party started. 610ft lbs eats everything else alive.
