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1BAD79 DRIVE TRAIN BUILD "lots o pics"

Toyoda said:
So you guys prefer Rotella T over Delo 400? Why?


Well - I can't answer that as I am just now lernin' about both. I was talking with another friend of mine who writes a tech colum for 4wheeler mag and he had the same recomendations as what has been gone over here sooo now I want to know why the cam manufactures don't give you this as a flyer or as part of the break in notes packaged with the cam....:wtf:
 
True, just an easier way for them to make more sales I guess :rolleyes: . All the big rig truckers I know have Delo in their trucks, but I hear a lot of smaller diesel rig owners prefer Rotella. I cant imagine the difference between the two would be that great.
 
I don't know why, but Comp specifically told me Rotello. Makes me think there is a difference. And yes it is very lame for them to not include this in the break in procedures. Also, I have heard that diesel oils are next on the hit list for the anti-friction additives and those changes take effect in 2007. After that I guess you'll have to use an additive like Lucas Oil has. Can't recall the name of their anti-friction additive right now.
 
Well isn't that cool........some of the green weenee stuff makes me want to :puke:

I will be doing the break in using Rotello and then moving to a synthetic I believe.

Any thoughts on synthetics and their properties? have they been affected by the new formulations?
 
I've heard problems like dino now has on the syns for a long time. But I can't recall why since I don't use them. A google search will probably tell you lots more about them than you ever care to learn.
 
Ok, found a thread I was looking for on a hot rod forum. Here is the Lucas product I was referring to earlier: http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=25&catid=2&loc=show
Regarding the syn oil, this is a copy of a thread by Rob Fortier, editor of Classic Trucks mag:
Turns out that synthetic oil is actually detrimental to engines due to it's 0 Total Base value, which basically means it's highly acidic. BMW is currently in a situation where the synthetic it puts in their '06 models has actually been disintegrating oil filters within 4,000 miles. The thing that got me was the fact that synthetic is just as "cheap" to produce as mineral-based (ALL oils start with the same base but just formulate their own additives), yet they're able to get the price they charge (600% mark up) because people have been lead to believe how great synthetic is. Mobil 1 has had more formulas pulled from the shelves than they've had on the shelves. GM will no longer be using Mobil 1, or anything synthetic for that matter, after 2007. Then there's the whole deal with synthetics in racing...
 
Ok, this from Comp Cams was also found:
1.800.999.0853
www.compcams.com FAX 901.366.1807


Flat Tappet Camshafts
Recent changes in oil and engine technology are likely the cause of
premature camshaft failure; here’s what you can do to protect your engine!
Premature flat tappet camshaft failure has been an issue of late and not just with one brand or type of camshaft.
In almost every case, the hardness or the taper of the cam lobe is suspected, yet most of the time that is not the
problem. This growing trend is due to factors that are unrelated to camshaft manufacture or quality. Changes in
today's oil products and “advanced†internal engine design have contributed to a harsher environment for the
camshaft and a potential for failure during break-in. But there are several things you can do to turn the tide on
this discouraging trend.
Proper Camshaft Set-Up & Break-In
Proper flat tappet camshaft set-up and break-in, as any engine builder knows, are keys to how long a camshaft
will last, both short and long term. Making certain that the camshaft and lifters are properly lubricated will guarantee
that the camshaft and lifters are protected during the critical initial start-up of your newly-built engine.
COMP Cams® offers the right product for this job (Part #154), and it is available in several different size containers
for engine builder convenience. To further enhance this “relationship,†we strongly recommend the use of
COMP Cams® Camshaft Break-In Oil Additive (Part #159) during the break-in. While this additive was originally
developed specifically for break-in protection, subsequent testing has proven the durability benefits of its long
term use. This special blend of additives promotes proper break-in and protects against premature cam and lifter
failure by replacing some of the beneficial ingredients that the oil companies have been required to remove from
off-the-shelf oil. These specialized COMP Cams® lubricants are the best “insurance policy†you can buy and the
first step to avoiding durability problems with your new flat tappet camshaft.
Adequate Lubrication
Another major factor in the increase of flat tappet camshaft failure is your favorite brand of engine oil. Simply put,
today’s engine oil is just not the same as it used to be, thanks to ever tightening environmental regulations. The
EPA has done a great job in reducing emissions and the effects of some of the ingredients found in traditional oils;
however these changes to the oil have only made life tougher on your camshaft. The lubricity of the oil and specifically
the reduction of important additives such as zinc and manganese, which help break-in and overall camshaft
life, have been drastically reduced. In terms of oil selection, we recommend Shell Rotella T oil for the break-in
procedure. Most often used in diesel engine applications, this higher lubricity oil works in gasoline engines
as well.
4-10-06
Research & Development Dept.
TECH BULLETIN
1.800.999.0853
www.compcams.com FAX 901.366.1807


• Double check your camshaft and lifter set-up prior to the break-in process, and use an ample amount of the
supplied assembly lube on all lobes, distributor gear and the face of bottom of each lifter.
• Use high-lubricity engine oil such as Shell Rotella T oil to help during the break-in process and use COMP
Cams® Camshaft Break-In Oil Additive (Part #159).
• Use flat tappet lifters with cam face oiling provisions, such as COMP Cams® Part #800-16 (GM) or
#817-16 (Ford).
• Use a COMP Cams® Lifter Bore Grooving Tool (#5003) to increase oiling.
• Use high-quality, U.S.-built COMP Cams® lifters to make certain you are receiving the best quality lifter you
can buy. Avoid “brown bag†lifters.
Competition Cams, Inc.
3406 Democrat Road
Memphis, TN 38118
901.795.2400
 
Comet..

All very good stuff. Thanks for digging it up and posting.
I will be altering my ideas on synthetics as well. Some of the reading I had done in the past indicated some real advantages after break in but had warned against the use of syns during initial break in due to its detrimental effects on ring seating.
I should have my crank back today and be spending the weekend reassembling and doing the install and cam break in.

The following is from a Friend of Mine who writes a tech column for one of the big 4x4 mags.... he had missunderstood some of what I did durring break in. I always have used a pre-lube shaft made from an old ditributer and a drill to run up oil pressure before fire up but the rest of what he says is spot on and should be followed by anyone firing up a new cam/motor...


......also, I believe you said you pulled coil wire and cranked engine to
get oil pressure before starting. My father in law who was quite
noted for his performance engines felt that this was a wrong thing
to do. Keep in mind that the only oil that gets on the cam lobes is
what is splashed by the crank and drain back from the heads.

with every engine that went out of the shop he loaned a pressure
tank that you put 50 psi of air and the amount of oil the engine held
and then forced it through a oil passage, (perhaps oil pressure
sending unit hole). he would insist that the valve covers be pulled
and you made sure each rocker had oil. ( besides coating everything
like push rods and rockers with cam lube) He then wanted the engine
to fire right now on the first crank and be ran at around 2000 rpm
(not with the fast idle screw) for at least 2 mins. then shut down
and a check made for fuel water and oil leaks, (with mufflers on so
you could hear the engine noise, not the exhaust) then re started and
the rpm varied from no less than 1500 to 3000 or so for 20 min. this
was all to insure good oil flow. some times he would even assemble
the engine with a special set of low pressure valve springs for break
in and then change the springs out. He wanted the oil changed with in
500 miles and the filter cut open for inspection. cam lube will plug
a filter. plus he wanted to check for what kind of metal particles.

I dont think that he had over half a dozen cam failures in 30 years...........



He later sent me an artical regarding some of the same stuff you posted here but I had skimmed it and missed the recomendation for the use of Rotello Dello 400 or Delvac oil on break in.

Anyhow, I hope some of the other guys here can learn from my pain.

sven
 
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Comet said:
Also interesting to note that at least 3 of the people posting on that thread had 460s eat the cam.


Would you post a link to the Thread?

I would be interested in reading through that one. I know there are some inherent problems with 385 series ford motor oiling but those usually affect bearing life at sustained High rpm not cam lobe life - as has been discused the lobes are "splash lubed" unless the lifter bores are grooved to allow oil to "squirt" the cam under pressure. Or some other means is employed.
 
Just an update..

Finally got it back together and fired up Sunday. Used EOS liberally during assembly and in the oil. (Rotello-T) Iv'e run a 1/4 tank of gas through it and things seem cool. Going to drop the oil this evening and swap filters and cut this one open and have a look.

Thanks all for the help and suggestions.

"thunder in the pipes"

Sven
 
sounds good Sven....


if'n you ever make it down Canby-way, you should stop in and take me for a ride...

:beer: :beer: 's on me....
 
Berne said:
sounds good Sven....


if'n you ever make it down Canby-way, you should stop in and take me for a ride...

:beer: :beer: 's on me....


Always up for a beer...or two. Did you ever post up your build? Looks like after Supermotors crashed i have to go back and sort out my pics and redo the links ....Bah:mad:
 
way cool....
Iv'e had my nose down running the shop and hadn't logged in much here.
I'll definately have to get by and see what your buildin in person...

Sven
 

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