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Brake Issues !

onetoncrawler

onetoncrawler

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Manual brakes, 7/8 master cylinders - 1 for front and 1 for rear - stock chevy 60 calipers on front - 3/4 calipers on rear....... after bleeding brakes i have no pedal on either one MC for the initial push, after pumping about twice they stop fine and seem to hold OK... a friend suggested putting residual valves in line so i have some on order , any other suggestions?


Full Hyro Steering - 2X8 SE ram, 4 port orbital, stock 5.3 pump, w/ a cooler on the return line ....... have not properly bled the system but after cycling the steering left to right multiple times it seems that the pump is not hooked up at all... i did try reversing the pump and return lines and it made it harder to steer and i got kickback. I have it plumbed per PSC's diagram. is it as simple as bleeding the air out or do i have other issues? I have noticed that when i remove the pwr steering pump cap i can hear air escaping almost like there was a vacuum on it. should i leave the cap off while bleeding?

Thanks!
 
Re: steering and brake issues

With two master cylinders, bleed the brakes on both ends together. Pump, hold, open left bleeder front AND rear, pedal down, close both bleeders, repeat. Then do right side. If master cylinders are new, did you bench bleed them?

http://wilwood.com/PDF/DataSheets/ds412.pdf

See specifically: bench Bleeding on page 1, and Dual master cylinder application on the top of page 2.

Oh hydro steering, did you use suction hose in the correct size on the return, AN10. Return 24" or less, 12" better? Resoiver highest thing in system?

http://howeperformance.com/pdfs/rockcrawler%20hose%20diag.pdf

Follow these bleeding instructions:

http://howeperformance.com/pdfs/bleed-instr.pdf
 
Re: steering and brake issues

On the steering you should properly bleed the system and see what happens. Also make sure the lines on the ram are hooked up correctly and not reversed.
 
Re: steering and brake issues

John Galbreath Jr. said:
With two master cylinders, bleed the brakes on both ends together. Pump, hold, open left bleeder front AND rear, pedal down, close both bleeders, repeat. Then do right side. If master cylinders are new, did you bench bleed them?

http://wilwood.com/PDF/DataSheets/ds412.pdf

See specifically: bench Bleeding on page 1, and Dual master cylinder application on the top of page 2.

Oh hydro steering, did you use suction hose in the correct size on the return, AN10. Return 24" or less, 12" better? Resoiver highest thing in system?

http://howeperformance.com/pdfs/rockcrawler%20hose%20diag.pdf

Follow these bleeding instructions:

http://howeperformance.com/pdfs/bleed-instr.pdf
Click to expand...

i have two pedals so the bleeding them together wont apply, bought the whole assembly used from EOR and didn't bench bleed

i went to Total hose (Parker) and told them what i was running and they made my lines, the steering lines are -10 (1/2 in hose) but the pump and returns are -6 or-8 i believe (3/8) hose

the power steering pump is the only reservoir i have right now, just have a cooler inline on the return.. .and the pump is lower than the orbital for sure

thanks for the replies
 
Re: steering and brake issues

Should not have to bench bleed then, but if you cannot get pedal, that is where I would start. Also, give steady push on the pedal and see if it will go to the floor over time, if it will, then it is bypassing and needs to be rebuilt.

On the hoses, think on them in */16 = 1". So AN6 is 6/16 or 3/8". The return should be 5/8" and I doubt you cooler is larger then 3/8". While I have seen some work this way. It was my problem and fixed when I changed from a AN6 (3/8") return to a AN12 (3/4") return, deleted the trans cooler I was using as a steering cooler, and went with this resivoir/cooler:

Part number 1019:

http://howeperformance.com/accessories-reservoirs.htm
 
Re: steering and brake issues

yep its just a 3/8 cooler too, ill try bleeding it and if that doesnt work i will throw some money at it and get a reservoir and bigger return line...although this same setup worked fine on my jeep before i tore it down (dif orbital)
 
Re: steering and brake issues

On my steering I have a 5.3 with a stock pump and reservoir, a single ended ram 2x8, a derale trans cooler hooked up to it with#6 and #8 lines, and the orbital is 2.25 turns lock to lock. And it steers like a dream. My cooler is mounted on the rear of my juggy above the pump. Highrange on here did the install on all of it and it turned out great. Sounds like might just need to be bleed. Best of luck!!! Brad
 
Re: steering and brake issues

well we bled the steering for probably 45 mins last night, it would turn great on jack stands but acted exactly the same with the motor running as it did with it shut off... going to try a different orbital tonight and see if that helps, almost seems like the pump is not pumping at all :dunno:
 
Re: steering and brake issues

onetoncrawler said:
well we bled the steering for probably 45 mins last night, it would turn great on jack stands but acted exactly the same with the motor running as it did with it shut off... going to try a different orbital tonight and see if that helps, almost seems like the pump is not pumping at all :dunno:
Click to expand...

The pump may very well indeed be the problem then...If you rev the engine will steering improve or does it stay "just like the pump" is not pumping? If so, try a new pump. :dblthumb:
 
Re: steering and brake issues

onetoncrawler said:
well we bled the steering for probably 45 mins last night, it would turn great on jack stands but acted exactly the same with the motor running as it did with it shut off... going to try a different orbital tonight and see if that helps, almost seems like the pump is not pumping at all :dunno:
Click to expand...
we had the same problem on Kings rig. it worked fine till the lines were broke loose to put high steer on it, then never could get it right again , till we put a new pump on it.
 
Re: steering and brake issues

on the brakes.....believe it or not the only way i got my wilwood to bleed was by opening the bleeders on the calipers and let it sit all night. make sure its full. little messy the next day but it got everything full/.
then i could tap lightly on the M/C with the cap off and watch for bubbles to come up, if nothing just barely touch the pedal and some bubbles should come up...and repeat.....sounds crazy but it worked for me thumb.gif
 
Re: steering and brake issues

CSMITH said:
we had the same problem on Kings rig. it worked fine till the lines were broke loose to put high steer on it, then never could get it right again , till we put a new pump on it.
Click to expand...

yep if the orbital doesnt help then i will try a pump, one of JR's buddies suggested the shaft may have been broken in the wreck (motor pulled from wrecked truck)

Whiskey, I ordered two rebuild kits for the brakes and residual valves, i will put those on and try the bleed procedure you suggested. i have faith i can make them work, its too simple of a setup laughing1
 
Re: steering and brake issues

i had hell with getting my brakes to work when i built my rig i had to step up to 1" bore master cylinders to get a pedal but i still have to pump the brakes to get it to stop good. if the residual valves help i might try them on mine, hope you get it fixed :dblthumb:
 
Re: steering and brake issues

rebuild kits for brakes showed up this morning, going to put those in and residual valves and hope that cures the problem

steering was solved by putting in a new pump. the shaft was broken in the old one ... so the pump wasnt helping at all :****:
 
Re: steering and brake issues

Rokcrler said:
Which hookup diagram u end up with on orbital?
Click to expand...

the one that was on the back of the orbital :****:

it matched the one from PSC's site also, it was underneath the paint, once i striped it with brake cleaner you could read it just fine. steers like a dream now :driving:
 
Re: steering and brake issues

well i have rear brakes - rebuilt both master cylinders, put in residual valves on each line, bench bled the MC's , installed them and got rear brakes

front brakes act like they are not supplying any pressure to the calipers - i took off the brake lines and cleaned them out with air, new copper gaskets at the lines and even switched master cylinders - still no front brakes :dunno:

im going to call Willwood in a bit to see if they have any suggestions
 
I had similar issues a year or so ago on mine - turned out being a rubber line collapsing
 

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