ben and heath and I hated it because of the group we were behind. the tgtw guys (no offense to them) like to put it in 100:1 and let it look for traction. like let each lug on the tire plop plop on the ledge for hours. 1 trail took all day. no thanks. We like running trails, but we like to RUN them, no see who can go the slowest. I have no problem with spotting somone up some slow stuff, its fun to run rocks. every now and then, lose traction, light them up, get up it and go back to being careful. I will go back, but it will be with a group of 3 or so like minded wheelers.