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ecotec ?

billstoy

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OK I started this thread 1 1/2 years ago. I would still like to do a ecotec buggy! Thinking something like a trophylite truck.
Does anyone know anything about them, their set up, Front and rears they are running?
One post said ecotec to th400 or th350 to a 205 to a 9in rear, but what ind. front could I use to make it a strong high travel 4x4?
I would like more info. Can I do a power glide ? Who would make a simple 4 to 1 gear drive case. I don't need 2 wd or front burn. just something for the 4 cyl buggy stuff.
Thanks for the help !! Bill
 
I know a good bit, have a complete running 2006 2.4 wrecked Cobalt for sale right now as a matter of fact. I was going to build a transaxle buggy out of it but just don't have time any more.

What are you wanting to know?
 
what do the trophy lite trucks run ? how hard is it to do a stand alone ecotec. how much are you asking and where?
 
I have no clue about trophy trucks, sorry. I wouldn't want to have a TH400 behind one, they suck up too much HP. Maybe the TT guys are building super efficient high dollar transmissions though.

Asking $2000. It's in Milton, FL right now.

I don't know of anyone that stocks any GM trans adapters. They have been made though. There are a couple companies that stock VW trans adapters. The 90* V8 trans adapter is expensive because it has to be thick and machined. But the GM 60* V6 pattern is easy to build your own adapter because the dowels line up. The Ecotec has its own unique ballhousing pattern. When you build a 60* adapter using the dowels lined up it clocks the trans 10* to one side, but that's not really a big deal. The couple rear wheel drive Ecotec applications use a bolt-on bellhousing that can be made to fit some of the Aisin transmissions, but they're kind of little and weak so I never looked too far into them.

There are several generations of Ecotecs. They can all be made to make a lot of power using stock internals, but some are better than others. Obviously all the boosted applications have forged rods. It is said that the 2 years of Cobalt SS (06 & 07) NA 2.4 LE5 engines also had forged rods. Gne 1 blocks had casting porosity issues that make them undesireable to builders. The one I am selling is a 2006 SS LE5, so it should have the forged rods. But I have a set of forged rods to go with it just in case. The forged rod engines are capable of around 400 - 500hp boosted and still being reliable. The other engines with sintered rods are said to be good to around 300 - 350hp. I also have two m90 Eaton superchargers that can go with the car for the right price. My plan was to build my own intake to run them.

Making them stand alone is not easy. The supercharged Ecotecs used an old computer that isn't supported any more. Old programs exist to modify them but its difficult. The turbocharged LNF engines used a special computer that only one company has hacked and therefore is expensive to tune. In ~2006 they switched to an E67which is supported by HPTuners and can have VATS disabled, making it stand-alone. My Cobalt has the E67 ECM.

You don't HAVE to run a computer though. MSD makes a distributor that mounts on the back of the head and runs off the camshaft so that you can run standard ignition. At that point you would pick your fuel system.

Many of the stock Ecotecs did not have power steering pumps. They used an electric assist motor attached to the steering shaft instead to provide better fuel economy / not rob power off the engine. You have to build your own pump mount if you get one of those engines. There are a couple company that make expensive billet mounts. Most people put the pump where the ac compressor was on the lower left front of the engine. There was also an option on early Ecotecs for a power steering pump on the back of the head where the MSD distributor would go which is driven by the camshaft also. It was a TC pump but if you get an engine without that option you have to remove the camshaft to press a bushing into the end of it to drive a pump.
 
The Jeep 4-cyl A904 auto trans is stout, can be built even more stout, and has the GM60* pattern. That's the trans I was going to use if I went longitudinal. Some years of the Camaro used a unique 700R4 with the GM60* pattern though if you wanted to stick with GM stuff.
 
The NA engines weigh about 225 - 250 lbs, are all aluminum, block and head. Forced induction engines are a bit more as a result of the super/turbo chargers. They use balance shafts to reduce engine vibrations that are inherent with all I4 engines. The balance shafts are chain-driven behind the timing cover. Several companies make balance shaft delete kits to shave weight even further. This results in slightly worse engine vibes but in an offroad vehicle it doesn't matter. Its no worse than any other I4 engine that doesn't have balance shafts, which is most other 4-cylinders.
 
I don't know what the current hp record for Ecotecs is, but drag guys have been known to put out 1200hp+. On a 2.4L forced induction engine with stock internals 300 - 350hp is pretty easy. Tuners with upgraded pistons, rods, ported heads, cams, etc. are known to get into the 600hp range on daily drivers. Wiseco makes low compression forced induction pistons, several companies make h-beam rods and cams. My engine has cam phasing which can be kept or eliminated using cam phaser delete kits.
 
Y'all can check out alphafabindustries. com I know they have everything to do a ecotech swap on a vw rail buggy including stand alone ECM wiring harness and turbo kits. They are suppose to know everything ecotech up to 2009 models


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The red buggy in the 4 cylinder race at AOP has a ecotech motor
He can tell you all about it. I think it came from out west somewhere
 
Posted on Pirate...

There are several rear wheel drive transmission options now and many adapters. The most interesting is the Asin family of transmissions. Using the bellhousing from the RWD manual cars should allow you to mate up to a Toyota truck, Isuzu and many similar 4x4 transmissions.

There are adapters for the T5 family of transmissions, and from there you should be able to mate to a Dana 300 or Atlas.

There are also adpaters that convert it to anything that uses the Chevy bolt pattern as used on the V8s. So that open up most all of the automatic trans mission choices. 200R4 would probaby be plenty behind these motors.
 
clemsonjeep said:
There are several rear wheel drive transmission options now and many adapters. The most interesting is the Asin family of transmissions. Using the bellhousing from the RWD manual cars should allow you to mate up to a Toyota truck, Isuzu and many similar 4x4 transmissions.

I don't think this part is entirely true any more. Soeone on one of the forums tried this and machine work and modifications had to be done on the bellhousing. The Eco bell didn't just bolt up to the Aisin trans. The bell also wasn't quite the right length so they had to shorten the trans shaft or add a spacer between the bell and trans or something.
 
Neal3000 said:
Can you just use the factory transmission like a typical honda buggy?

Billstoy seemed to be concentrating on RWD transmissions / not transaxle buggies. But yes, you can. The Ecotec spins clockwise like most other engines, unlike most Honda engines. So that makes engine orientation / axle choices a little different than a normal Honda transaxle buggy. The styles of auto transmissions are slightly different, too. The GM autos are long, as long or longer than the engine, and sit down to the lower right of the engine next to the oil pan. One output comes out toward the front of the engine and the other comes out toward the back of the engine. On Honda auto transmissions the bulk of the transmission is kind of to the rear and side of the engine with outputs both toward the back of the engine. None of this really matters, it just creates packaging considerations that are different than the Honda transaxle buggies.

Also, none of the force induction engines came from the factory with an auto. I guess GM wasn't too fond of their automatics standing up to the power. I know little to nothing about the manual transmissions. But the automatic that came behind almost all FWD Ecotecs was the 4t45e 4- speed. Its a computer-controlled 4-speed overdrive trans. They had several final drive ratios available through the use of different chain sprocket sizes and differential ratios. They have little to no aftermarket support and have mixed reviews. Some guys are putting 500hp through them drag racing and not having issues. Other guys can't get them to last 100,000 miles behind a stock engine. The Cobalt I am selling has this transmission.

An option I had considered was using a 4t65e instead. It is a FWD trans very similar in dimensions to the 4t45e. GM seems to have felt very good about this transmission because they put it behind the 300hp+ LS4 FWD cars. It is undeniably the most common FWD GM trans in the country. It came behind virtually all V6 FWD cars that they made from the early 90's until recently. It uses the GM60* bolt pattern, so its not a direct bolt-on, but as I stated earlier, its an easy pattern to make your own adapter for. 4-speed OD trans, very stout. It is the TH350 of the FWD world with tons of aftermarket support and like 9 different final drive ratio possibilities. Racing clutch packs, shafts, valves, etc are all made for it. It uses the same / similar control solenoids as the 4t45e (4l60 and 80, too) and has been run with the same TCM's at various points of time. I haven't done the swap but I have worked out the electronics and programming "on paper" and it seems entirely possible to run it using the stock Cobalt computer. It can also be controlled manually via toggle switches and using aftermarket 4l60/80 controllers. This trans is known to hold up to 500hp in stock form reliably, more when built. It is the trans that GM put behind their 1200hp FWD Ecotec drag car. Last time I was at Pull-a-Part I noticed about 50 of these transmissions in cars.
 
The Saturn Sky, the little 2 seater, like a Pontiac solstice, has the turbo ecotec engine and its rear wheel drive, and the chevy hhr ss has the same engine, but fwd.
 
zukimaster said:
The Saturn Sky, the little 2 seater, like a Pontiac solstice, has the turbo ecotec engine and its rear wheel drive, and the chevy hhr ss has the same engine, but fwd.

Yup. The HHR used the 4t45e. Saab used Ecotecs as well as a couple others. I think I saw somewhere that it is the most numerous 4-cyl ever produced by GM. There were over 4,000,000 Ecotecs produced.
 
keep the ideas coming ? anyone know about stand alone with propane?
 
billstoy said:
keep the ideas coming ? anyone know about stand alone with propane?

I kind of already covered that. Get the MSD distributor, run a standard LPG setup, rock out.

I was going to keep the stock ECM because it allows you to fine-tune timing better than the MSD. Was going to run propane for fuel with the supercharger.
 
patooyee said:
Also, none of the force induction engines came from the factory with an auto. I guess GM wasn't too fond of their automatics standing up to the power.

The 2.0 turbo ecotec is still being made, mated mostly behind automatics, in the regal, malibu, caddy ats, etc.... and Millions of the smaller 1.4 turbo ecos are in cruzes, sonics, veranos, etc.
 

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