ecotec ?

patooyee · Apr 3, 2016

Craig_c said:
Kinda what I was thinking.

So what's the cheapest way to get one of these engines running outside of the car, but retain EFI?

It's different with each application since they used 3 or 4 different ECM's throughout the years. Some of the ECM's are easier to run standalone than others. It's been too long since I did my research on this and I don't want to give out the wrong info.

There's also some engines that are just stronger than others. Pretty much all of the 2.2's are junk internally. (Well, not junk, just the weakest of the bunch.) Some of the early 2.0 and 2.2 blocks are known to have porosity issues that can lead to cracking. Only 2006 and 2007 2.4's came with forged rods. All of the force-induced engines had forged rods. There's probably stuff I am missing. I'm just going off of memory. A lot depends on your power output level desired. If you're happy with 120 - 170 hp any of the blocks / internals are probably fine. If you're wanting 300+hp you need to do some research.

Craig_c · Apr 3, 2016

So a 2.4l engine is a must at the least? I guess my question without doing any research, is, are these like a LS where you can take the ECM and stock harness, cut all the crap out of the harness you don't need, and have the ECM tuned to run?

I'd love to build a small, lightweight Ultra4 car with something like a hopped up Ecotech.

patooyee · Apr 3, 2016

Craig_c said:
So a 2.4l engine is a must at the least? I guess my question without doing any research, is, are these like a LS where you can take the ECM and stock harness, cut all the crap out of the harness you don't need, and have the ECM tuned to run?

I'd love to build a small, lightweight Ultra4 car with something like a hopped up Ecotech.

Some are, some aren't. In some of the models the ECM needs a theft signal from the BCM before it will start the engine. So you need to run the BCM with a dummy ignition switch and key somewhere. In others there is an aftermarket company that has hacked the ECM and will disable that feature. But it costs like $400 and you have to rent a special cable to install it. In others you can remove everything but the ECM no problem. That's why I say that you have to do some research on the ECM's.

I know mine uses an e67 ECM which can be cut down to be standalone and VATS disabled using HPT. It's a big reason I went with the one I did. Not all of the ECM's are like that though.

The 2006-2007 2.4 is the only engine of them all with the e67 ECM, forged rods, and new-gen block without the casting issue.

Craig_c · Apr 3, 2016

So say you didn't get a forged rod block, as far as you know the only difference the rods? I'd say a turbo/supercharged has different Pistons then the N/A?

patooyee · Apr 3, 2016

I guess the answer to your question about if they can be cut down and run stand-alone, yes, all of them can be rigged in one way or another to run in a buggy.

Some are better choices than others depending on your skills, abilities, and desires though.

patooyee · Apr 3, 2016

Craig_c said:
So say you didn't get a forged rod block, as far as you know the only difference the rods? I'd say a turbo/supercharged has different Pistons then the N/A?

Yes, there are different heads, pistons, cams, and compression ratios available throughout the models and years. Cam phasing was introduced at some point as well. They also changed from central coil to coil on plug at some point and to direct injection. I don't know the switch-over years.

Here's a good starting point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Ecotec_engine

grcthird · Apr 4, 2016

These guys are mostly about putting ecotecs in dune cars, but they have all the performance goodies for them.

http://www.alphafabindustries.com/

patooyee · Apr 4, 2016

I was never able to find a reliable source for any turbo Ecotec stuff.

ZZP does not do phone calls and will not share their phone number. I emailed them a few times but they were very difficult to deal with, would not answer any questions directly. After a few weeks of dicking around and wasting time emailing I finally asked if I could call them. They told me no and if I needed phone support I should shop somewhere else. So I did. The entire time they were blatantly rude and dismissive of me, literally from first contact. I have had to buy a few parts from ZZP's eBay listings though. They ship fast and are as advertised. I will only do business with them via eBay now because I don't trust them and eBay adds another layer of protection. They sell complete LNF turbo system take-offs from crate engines that they buy very cheap on eBay. My experience with ZZP is mirrored by other Ecotec owners that I have been in contact with.

I tried Hahn as well. It is difficult to speak to anyone via phone there. They have an operator that directs all calls to voicemail that never gets returned. They did return about one email per week but the purchase of a turbo system was taking months via email so I finally demanded someone call me. The owner of the company finally did, I think his name was Brian, could be wrong. He was nice and said he would get a quote out to me in the next week or so. Weeks went by, nothing. I emailed him again asking if I should expect to see anything and he sent me a generic quote for a system that we hadn't even discussed. He had obviously forgotten our conversation and we were starting over. I was about 3 months into obtaining the quote at that point and didn't care to waste more time. I was disappointed with this experience because I was hoping to use them for tuning since they are only 5 hours away from me.

I also called Alphafab. Nice guys, they said they would have a quote to me the next day. Week after week went by with me hounding them for the quote, every time they said they would have it to me the next day. Eventually 3 months passed and I gave up. About 6 months after my initial contact and 3 months after I had last heard from them, out of the blue, they finally emailed me a quote. I had already built my own system by that time.

I found the quotes from both Alpha and Hahn to be absurdly high for what they included. I think I ended up building my own system using brands that I had actually seen before for about half of what their quotes were. All in I spent about 4 months shopping turbo systems and it was all a waste of time.

billstoy · Apr 5, 2016

So I guess this is why I gave up last time. To complicated , just stick to what I know. More toyota stuff. I have fun, and keep it cheap.

patooyee · Apr 5, 2016

billstoy said:
So I guess this is why I gave up last time. To complicated , just stick to what I know. More toyota stuff. I have fun, and keep it cheap.

Nothing is simple any more. Try swapping a 4-banger from a modern Toyota and you'll run into the same complexities. It's the sacrifice you make to get a more efficient, modern engine with more power, less weight, and better durability. It's the same with the LS engines as well, they're just so popular that the information got puked all over the internet to make it easy.

When I worked at Ford they wouldn't even look up a part unless you had your VIN#. Parts would change mid-year, sometimes multiple times in a year. A 5.4L manufactured one month could have completely different internals the next month. There was never any telling what you were going to see when you worked on something. Even something as simple as a windshield wiper arm could change during the same model year.

I'll look up all of my ECM research sometime in the next couple days and relay it here. To me, the ECM is the single biggest aspect to consider when choosing an Ecotec. You can build an engine to whatever spec you want, turbo it however you want, but if the ECM is impossible to work with it will never start.

Craig_c · Apr 5, 2016

So when looking for a donor vehicle, I assume the 2.4 is the one someone would want?

patooyee · Apr 5, 2016

If you're not wanting forced induction the 2.4 LE5 is your best bet for the most power. It's the biggest displacement offered in stock form and had the easiest to work with (in terms of aftermarket support) ECM. The 2006 & 7 LE5's only came in the SS cars and were the only 2.4's that had the same type of forged rods as the super and turbo charged engines. Thus, those two years of LE5's are generally considered boost-ready in stock form. (Albeit, they are on the high side in terms of compression ratio.) After 2007 the 2.4's became available in nearly all the cars and got the sintered cast rods that aren't considered to be very strong. They're good for stock power, a little more, nothing crazy.

If you're set on forced induction then the choice becomes a lot more complex since you have to deal with ECM choices. Both the super and turbo charged engines used ECM's that require special considerations. So that's why I went with the 2006 2.4 NA and added my own turbo. It's the best of everything but also the most complicated in terms of plug and play.