Full hydro steering on my Toyota sucks testicles...

yankster · Jul 17, 2014

After the belt squeals and slips for a while it will polish the pulley and reduce grip. A new belt will help for a while but the squeal will come back.
I've sandblasted the pulley to give it some texture. Seems to be a good long-term fix.

TBItoy · Jul 17, 2014

Re: Re: Re: Full hydro steering on my Toyota sucks testicles...

yankster said:
After the belt squeals and slips for a while it will polish the pulley and reduce grip. A new belt will help for a while but the squeal will come back.
I've sandblasted the pulley to give it some texture. Seems to be a good long-term fix.

X2

The trail gear anodized aluminum pulley seems to be extra slick also. I had to run the belt uncomfortably tight to stop slippage

Stretch · Jul 17, 2014

To keep your current ram you'll need to do like everyone else has said and move the attachment point closer to the knuckle pivot. Usually for an FJ80 Axle running full hydro its common to see an 8" Ram when using the arms flipped to the front of the knuckle and an 8 or 10" ram if you leave the tie rod behind the axle. I would assume even with the Hellfire knuckles/arms you're not using all of the steering angle with that 6" ram. As for your pump, try what yankster and TBItoy have said. I ran into the same thing after the 1ton/fullhydro swap in my white truck with that whole "bump bump bump" feeling in the wheel. Changed the plumbing about 3x, bled, bled, bled and still did the same ****. I actually liked the steering after I got a big cooler on mine and ran the higher PSI TG pump, only gripe is they need to texture the notch where the belt sits on the pulley.

clemsonjeep · Jul 17, 2014

Here's a quote from the Hellfire post on Pirate:

"What about re-using some of my mini axle steering components? Yes you can. The arms have a 6" throw at the tie rod holes, and an 8" throw at the drag link holes. Ackerman angle you say? Each arm has 2 holes. The first hole is for the tie rod and it gives you the right amount of ackerman angle for the average wheel base. Need more steering angle and full hydro with the common 8" ram? Use the forward holes that have no ackerman angle for the furthest possible steering in comp based rigs. "

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/axles-tires-wheels/997804-fj80-high-steer-way-you-need.html

Mortalis5509 · Jul 17, 2014

Re:

A few ideas for you. The noise may be due to the belt slipping on the Lilly due to not enough surface contact, or warn belt. Your steering stops should stop you at max turn. Meaning you should hit the steering stops at the end of the ram and not one before the other. Fluid debate, I run gm power steering fluid.

zukimaster · Jul 17, 2014

I really feel that the bump and the squealing is the belt slipping, I have a sandblaster, take about 5 minutes to rough up that pulley, Its a small one so we can do it with it still on the truck also, believe that would fix that problem!

TacomaJD · Jul 17, 2014

Re:

Makes sense, all the anodizing is gone from the pulley and it is def slick from slipping so long. Maybe good fluid and a roughed up pulley will fix it. Will def be trying to mod the steering arms too.

Mortalis, don't think there are steering stops on this axle. not sure if thats just a toyota thing or what.

ibrokeit · Jul 17, 2014

Worth noting--his front axle is pretty much welded (e-locker that isnt wired up).

When I was running a Detroit, I had no issues turning my steering wheel in the Tacoma. One day I blew a shaft which killed the Detroit and make it stay permanently locked. The steering was terrible after that. Also worth noting I was running a PSC Hydro Assist, not full hyrdo.

TBItoy · Jul 17, 2014

Re: Re: Re: Full hydro steering on my Toyota sucks testicles...

ibrokeit said:
Worth noting--his front axle is pretty much welded (e-locker that isnt wired up).

When I was running a Detroit, I had no issues turning my steering wheel in the Tacoma. One day I blew a shaft which killed the Detroit and make it stay permanently locked. The steering was terrible after that. Also worth noting I was running a PSC Hydro Assist, not full hyrdo.

Ah, that makes a big difference.

Welded/spooled/locked E Locker/locked ARB is a lot harder to steer trail riding and crawling than a ratcheting locker.

I've had welded, ARB, and regular lockers (detroit, lock right, aussie, and a couple Spartans) in the front diffs, I definitely prefer a locker

TacomaJD · Jul 17, 2014

The main steering problem is that it lacks steering radius. The wheels do not cut far at all. This was good to keep the tires out of the leaf packs before, but now I have more room, I'd like to utilize it. I guess the e locked diff could make it worse on the system, but I would think full hydro with a 1,650 psi pump @ 4.5 gpm should be enough to handle it sufficiently? Like I said, it turns easy enough, I imagine it's just the slipping and whatnot causing the bump-bump-bump junk. Would be badass if I could put a cogged pulley on it to eliminate any slipping! Hell you might can, idk.

I hear a lot of folks mention the TG pumps whining. Mine has never whined any, I just experience the issues discussed here.

machen4x4 · Jul 17, 2014

jd I went with a 8" ram for the sami fj80 front.
disconnect the ram tie rods and see if it turns tighter
if so you might want to go with 8" ram.

Stretch · Jul 17, 2014

I think the radius issue has more to deal with the size of the ram and where it attaches to the arms than it being a flow thing. People can knock the TG pumps (mainly the pirate crowd) all they want but I've had nothing but good things to say about their stuff and their customer service in recent years. Even with the locked front, a full hydro system on an FJ80 axle it should steer relatively easy. It will tend to push more, but once you get the knuckles to turn all the way you should be fine. I wouldn't hesitate to run them bitches til the felts are crushing slightly.

TacomaJD · Jul 17, 2014

Stretch said:
I think the radius issue has more to deal with the size of the ram and where it attaches to the arms than it being a flow thing. People can knock the TG pumps (mainly the pirate crowd) all they want but I've had nothing but good things to say about their stuff and their customer service in recent years. Even with the locked front, a full hydro system on an FJ80 axle it should steer relatively easy. It will tend to push more, but once you get the knuckles to turn all the way you should be fine. I wouldn't hesitate to run them bitches til the felts are crushing slightly.

The radius issue is 100% the travel of the ram and where the tie rods are mounted on the arms, never mentioned flow had anything to do with that lol. I don't have felts on my knuckles, I'm running the Longfield UHMW plastic wiper seals, but anyway, you can see the wear marks where the wiper seals travel on the ball and there's a lot of turning left on the table. Def gonna either relocate tie rod mounts on the arm side or buy an 8" ram and sell my 6".

Gonna scuff the **** out of the pulley and likely switch to tractor fluid or whatever, and see if that helps the belt/flow ordeal. Will report back later.

Nuts · Jul 17, 2014

The PSC cylinder I had was an 8" but was set back with shims to 7.25'' or something close to match the TG high steer arms. 6 wasn't enough and 8 tried to rip the knuckle off

clemsonjeep · Jul 18, 2014

Just curious...why not wire up the locker? Shame to have it and not put it to good use...

TacomaJD · Jul 18, 2014

Re: Re: Re: Full hydro steering on my Toyota sucks testicles...

clemsonjeep said:
Just curious...why not wire up the locker? Shame to have it and not put it to good use...

I never really have a reason to run the front unlocked? When I wheel, I don't go to ride trails, I'm constantly hitting hard stuff. No need to be locking and unlocking all day long, every time I hit something. Just more potential moving parts to fawk up. I have 2wd option if I need to hit a stretch of road between the trailer and trail or something like that, which isn't very often, except for one place we wheel.

angryfab · Jul 18, 2014

did somebody say buggggggggggggggggggggggggy :woot:

clemsonjeep · Jul 18, 2014

TacomaJD said:
I never really have a reason to run the front unlocked? When I wheel, I don't go to ride trails, I'm constantly hitting hard stuff. No need to be locking and unlocking all day long, every time I hit something. Just more potential moving parts to fawk up. I have 2wd option if I need to hit a stretch of road between the trailer and trail or something like that, which isn't very often, except for one place we wheel.

Harlan just might change your mind...

drich394 · Jul 18, 2014

Re:

I never unlocked mine at Harlan. ..did fine

BUG-E J · Jul 18, 2014

How bad is your caster angle. Buddy of mine built a yota cab truck years ago that wouldn't turn around in an empty walmart parking lot. Ram did fine and was long enough. He had his caster up so high the part of the tire that actually turned wasn't making contact with the ground.