As far as John goes I have never met him, but he does seem to be a straight up fellow, and that was not meant to be a punch at him at all, I was just saying it had nothing to do with the topic at hand. And John my retirement plan is I'm 40 years old with a paid off Machine and Tool Business, that I built up by myself, I believe everything that you preach, I drive a personal truck that has 280,000 miles on it and a 94 ford 450 for a work truck.I refuse to go out and pay 45,000 for any new vehicle no matter what it is, and I don't owe a dime on anything I have other than my house.And I don't really think I will get to retire due to what I think will end up happening in this country as bad as I hate to admit it.