Holley Terminator EFI (Ford small block efi options)

[TBItoy]

Anyone used this yet? (on anything)

I'm considering aftermarket EFI for my new rig, mainly to get rid of the gawd awful intake manifold and basically non-tuneable EFI on my 351W.

Main draw I have to it is it can control Ford TFI ignition (with the proper pigtail).

I see a couple advantages in the short term and long term

Short term:
1. Get rid of stupid huge inefficient intake/throttle body, better packaging etc
2. Waterproof/shock proof ECM (stock ford ecm is not, which is a minor inconvenience as it can be mounted in a box, but still)
3. All new wiring, much cleaner install, etc (I've already cut down the factory harness, but I'll have to "dummy" out the emission controls)
4. With TFI control, I can keep the stock distributor so no "extra" $ out of pocket

Long term:
1. Eventually I want to build a mild stroker, aluminum head 351W (400+ cubic inch 400-500hp)
2. any of the good aftermarket distributors are available in a TFI version

http://www.holley.com/Terminator%20EFI/

Anyone see a downside (other than initial cost) ?

 

[Neal3000]

Re: Holley Terminator EFI

1st in line to say fawk this and get a LS engine

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-550-406/overview/

You can't be serious about spending this kind of money on a old school 351? Plus what's it going to cost you to build it up later on?

 

[ranger11]

Re: Re: Holley Terminator EFI

Im in the same boat. I want to add stuff to the motor but dont want to deal with the stock ecm and the complex tuning of megasquirt or quarter horse, etc. I was looking at that the other day and its pricey but looks like it would get the job done. My current engine was free so the way I see it I could buy the injection with the money saved and I would think you will pick up some power from the new f/I and intake. To me its a power mod that will be usable down the road.


Neal not everybody wants a ls. I think there awesome just not for my ranger.

 

[Neal3000]

Re: Holley Terminator EFI

i understand that not everyone wants LS i really do. and i also am pretty sure that there's no cheaper way to get big horsepower than going that route. i am positive that you could build a really nice 5.3 with a better injection system (and 6 bolt mains btw)than what the holly f.i. costs alone and for the cost of building a aluminum headed 351 stroker with holly injection you could build a HELL-uva LS engine.

But, I know Nick has a ford trans and t-cases so that's not really an option. but i still say it's crazy to spend that kinda money on a old school engine. why not propane? or sell it for $500 or whatever and get a EFI 302, they have a low profile multipoint fuel injection system with tons of aftermarket support and knowlege about them.

 

[Neal3000]

Re: Re: Holley Terminator EFI

Im in the same boat. I want to add stuff to the motor but dont want to deal with the stock ecm and the complex tuning of megasquirt or quarter horse, etc

if your engine is stock then from what i've seen with chevy tbi setups, tuning is a waste of time- there's just not much to be gained there with old school motors. just send your ecm off and get it burned to suit your setup, cut your harness down and rock out.

My current engine was free so the way I see it I could buy the injection with the money saved

you saved about $500, not 2K ;D

Neal not everybody wants a ls. I think there awesome just not for my ranger.

i agree that it would be beyond wrong to put a LS in a Ranger, just

 

[ranger11]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Holley Terminator EFI

you saved about $500, not 2K ;D

I agree with you. In my eyes im buying more than a f/I set up.

There are several ways to tune a ford ecm but it not easy or cheap. Its around 500 just for the adapter and the software. Then if you want to change intakes that's another 5-600 dollars. And then comes the actual tuning. Ive read where some pick it right up and others are lost and sell off the tuning stuff. So in reality its around 11-1200 to get a tune and intake. Add my savings of 500 and it will only cost me a couple hundred more for a tunable ecm kit. And it will clean up the wiring.


Propane, Ive considered it but like the convince of gas. Plus I have 0 experience and would have to learn how to work on it.

 

[ranger11]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Holley Terminator EFI

if your engine is stock then from what i've seen with chevy tbi setups, tuning is a waste of time- there's just not much to be gained there with old school motors. just send your ecm off and get it burned to suit your setup, cut your harness down and rock out.

Fords fuel injection was way ahead of the tbi stuff.
You just can't add a stroker kit heads cam and injectors and call it good. Tuning the fuel map and injectors pulse and timing curves is where power can be picked up.

While typing this I realize its alot of money and time to keep a brand of engine under the hood. Maybe I should buy a ls and trans. Lol

 

[Neal3000]

Re: Holley Terminator EFI

You might pick up a little hp if you know what your doing with that but i don't think it would be worth it with a stock engine. Your not going to be able to increase fuel/air/timing all that much unless you've got the motor for it. Why not let someone who knows what they're doing like Wayne Israel burn your ecm for $150 and be done?

Here's another thought, which you will probably hate lol......you can fairly easily adapt a gm tbi setup, It's damned cheap and easy to fool with, make your own adapter and use your existing carb manifold

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Gm+tbi+on+a+ford+351#seen

 

[TBItoy]

Re: Holley Terminator EFI

Yeah, I have a couple "reasons" to keep the Ford motor.

1. I have a built C6 (full rebuild, upgraded parts, FMVB)
2. I have a 1356/205 doubler
3. I already put all new exterior seals (oilpan, valve covers, water pump, etc) on it
4. I have my dual power steering pump setup figured out
5. I like where the oil filter is
6. I like the SBF architecture

I have a couple reasons that I DON'T want to go propane, mostly hashed out in this thread > http://www.hardlinecrawlers.com/forums/index.php?topic=20789.0

1. I don't want to lug around propane tanks. They are bulky and don't hold much fuel for the space they take up, plus you have to make them easily removeable.
2. I'd have to get a new ignition system, so that's added money
3. I'd have to go to a dual mixer setup when I build a bigger motor




I could convert to Mustang style EFI (I've considered it and did quite a bit of research), even with a normal carb intake and a straight up throttle body, but by the time I piece together all the parts (and upgrade them to suit a larger motor) and get the setup to tune it, I'd be in the same ballpark.

Swapping to a 302 is not an option. That would be like swapping a 350 out for a 305...

 

[Neal3000]

Re: Holley Terminator EFI

Swapping to a 302 is not an option. That would be like swapping a 350 out for a 305...

Not exactly tit4tat.... 305's are about the worst pos that chevy ever made aside from their diesel engines in the 80-90's

Whereas 302's seem to have a much nicer reputation than 351's in the ford world

Yeah, I have a couple "reasons" to keep the Ford motor.

1. I have a built C6 (full rebuild, upgraded parts, FMVB)
2. I have a 1356/205 doubler
3. I already put all new exterior seals (oilpan, valve covers, water pump, etc) on it

How long till all this shits for sale anyway?

 

[Mongo44]

Re: Holley Terminator EFI

How long till all this shits for sale anyway?

i smell another toyota build... :****:

 

[TBItoy]

Re: Re: Re: Holley Terminator EFI

Not exactly tit4tat.... 305's are about the worst pos that chevy ever made aside from their diesel engines in the 80-90's

Whereas 302's seem to have a much nicer reputation than 351's in the ford world
How long till all this shits for sale anyway?

Actually it's pretty much "tit 4 tat". Nothing inherently wrong with a 305 that wasn't also wrong with a 350 of the same era...

302s just came in Mustangs and got a decent aftermarket following (and they are actually slightly smaller overall because of the shorter deck height compared to a 351w). Either way, building a 302 seems pointless unless it's already in your vehicle.




I dunno, you wanna buy it? Lol

 

[ranger11]

Re: Re: Re: Holley Terminator EFI

You might pick up a little hp if you know what your doing with that but i don't think it would be worth it with a stock engine. Your not going to be able to increase fuel/air/timing all that much unless you've got the motor for it. Why not let someone who knows what they're doing like Wayne Israel burn your ecm for $150 and be done?

Here's another thought, which you will probably hate lol......you can fairly easily adapt a gm tbi setup, It's damned cheap and easy to fool with, make your own adapter and use your existing carb manifold

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Gm+tbi+on+a+ford+351#seen

Not talking about tuning a stock motor. I want to add parts but there's no since in now because I can't tune. I guess I could try sending the ecm to have it flashed then try it. Just sux that every upgrade it would have to be re flashed. As far as the tbi I read on that a few years ago. Not really friendly for modding the engine from what I read.

I plan to build a either a 347 or 408. When I get to that point I plan to buy an aftermarket f/I setup.

 

[Neal3000]

Re: Re: Re: Holley Terminator EFI

Actually it's pretty much "tit 4 tat". Nothing inherently wrong with a 305 that wasn't also wrong with a 350 of the same era...

302s just came in Mustangs and got a decent aftermarket following (and they are actually slightly smaller overall because of the shorter deck height compared to a 351w). Either way, building a 302 seems pointless unless it's already in your vehicle

ok talking stock engines here but imo- the 305 performancewise sucks hairy ballz not so when your talking about 302's. take a freaking mid 90's mustang with a 302 and it will smoke the doors off a camaro with a 305 or 350 and whatever with a 351 too. If your talking about building one to the hilt then i agree, go 351 it's got more upside and probably stronger.

i'm kinda in the same boat with my 350 though it does already have efi. it's a good engine but i'm not spending one more penny on it to get more hp

 

[TBItoy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Holley Terminator EFI

ok talking stock engines here but imo- the 305 performancewise sucks hairy ballz not so when your talking about 302's. take a freaking mid 90's mustang with a 302 and it will smoke the doors off a camaro with a 305 or 350 and whatever with a 351 too. If your talking about building one to the hilt then i agree, go 351 it's got more upside and probably stronger.

i'm kinda in the same boat with my 350 though it does already have efi. it's a good engine but i'm not spending one more penny on it to get more hp

I gotcha there.

Yeah if I had just kept one of all the th400s I've owned, and didn't already have the Ford stuff together I'd just go LS style, but they require a bit more $ than most people make it out.

I think it's kinda neat that you can build a large displacement sbf with a stock 351 block pretty much cheaper and easier than anything else.

I'm pretty confident that the stock ol motor will be sufficient for me for a while. Just looking at other options...

Of course

 

[Elliott]

Re: Holley Terminator EFI

If I was a ford man there would be no way I would ever build a 302, I agree they are strong little motors and hold up great but they have no balls, there is so much more power to be had in a Windsor. And have you checked with the fast ez kit, the ones I've been around work well. I'm thinking that's the route I'm going with my sbc, just talked to them at the good guys show this weekend and they were saying they sell those kits with an intank pump also.

 

[TBItoy]

Re: Re: Re: Holley Terminator EFI

If I was a ford man there would be no way I would ever build a 302, I agree they are strong little motors and hold up great but they have no balls, there is so much more power to be had in a Windsor. And have you checked with the fast ez kit, the ones I've been around work well. I'm thinking that's the route I'm going with my sbc, just talked to them at the good guys show this weekend and they were saying they sell those kits with an intank pump also.

I looked onto FAST EZ efi, MSD Atomic, Edelbrock E-street, and Professional Products Powerjection 3.

The Holley Terminator is the only one that will control Ford TFI ignition that I saw.

I reckon it is just so new that there isn't many out there yet.

 

[Elliott]

Re: Holley Terminator EFI

Not sure what ignition that is but why can't you get an hei for it?We always put them in everything for symplicity

 

[TBItoy]

Re: Re: Re: Holley Terminator EFI

Not sure what ignition that is but why can't you get an hei for it?We always put them in everything for symplicity

I could get an hei distributor, but that's more money.

It's basically the same thing though, just the Ford version.

from what I understand, the tfi uses a hall effect pickup in the distributor, and hei uses a magnetic pickup. Maybe? Not sure.
Edit: looks like the stock ford dist is hall effect, most aftermarket ones Tfi or Hei either are magnetic pickup.

The significance of that, i don't know.
Edit: seems that there is no real significance, just different type of signal.

Looks like there is no advantage to Hei vs Tfi if you want computer control,

Either way, I want computer control of the spark

 

[June dog]

Re: Holley Terminator EFI

Don't know about the Holley set up but the msd atomic is the **** on an old school motor. :****: