Link'd up fatness....

crash2 · May 23, 2006

I belive my rears are like 47" long but thats at the end of where you want. if you can go with like 43-45" berne you will be golden

Berne · May 23, 2006

about F'ing time...

cool.....thats what I wanted to hear.....

I'm shooting for right at 44-45" long on the lowers....

the more math I do on this rear suspension, the more complex it gets....

I was going to run |V| straight lowers, tri'd uppers, but "the numbers" say that this gives me a pretty wack'd out roll axis = lots of rear axle steer...
so now my lowers are more triangulated....which "should" work better, just not as easy to fab up....

did you do the math on you're mikey???.....do you get much axle steer from the rear??....
alot of my problems getting "good" geometry are that I want to keep the links up high.....should come out of this w/ some decent clearance when this is all done...

--B

MarcW · May 23, 2006

HIJACK- has anyone used poly bushings at all ends? my cutlass has a double triangulated 4 link with full poly bushings, control arms about 20" long, and it flex'es side to side and up and down very good without springs in it.

Not Jobless · May 23, 2006

Berne said:
I was going to run |V| straight lowers, tri'd uppers, but "the numbers" say that this gives me a pretty wack'd out roll axis = lots of rear axle steer...
so now my lowers are more triangulated....which "should" work better, just not as easy to fab up....

--B

That's the way the Warn XCL kit was on my Jeep years back. I never had any issues worth noting.

Not Jobless · May 23, 2006

MarcW said:
HIJACK- has anyone used poly bushings at all ends? my cutlass has a double triangulated 4 link with full poly bushings, control arms about 20" long, and it flex'es side to side and up and down very good without springs in it.

The poly bushings wear fast.

Binder · May 23, 2006

Mine are about 44" all 8 of them.

MarcW · May 23, 2006

Jobless said:
The poly bushings wear fast.

why do they last so long in my car then? :wtf:

edit- if they do wear, they are much cheaper than rod ends. so anyone running them?

crash2 · May 23, 2006

Binder said:
Mine are about 44" all 8 of them.

see berne--ricks are perfect :;

crash2 · May 23, 2006

MarcW said:
why do they last so long in my car then? :wtf:

edit- if they do wear, they are much cheaper than rod ends. so anyone running them?

Problem with polly mounts is you get side to side movement. plus that will wear the edges pretty quick---gotta remember there are different forces present and I don't think your car is made to flex like a trail rig is....

Berne · May 24, 2006

I'll be running polly bushings at the axle end of mine.....at least at the beginning. we'll see how they last, and how they work....
they may eventually get swapped for the big rod ends, but those things are $$$....

crash2 · May 24, 2006

Berne said:
I'll be running polly bushings at the axle end of mine.....at least at the beginning. we'll see how they last, and how they work....
they may eventually get swapped for the big rod ends, but those things are $$$....

berne I think you might wanna rethink that. with a light rig you can kinda get away with it--but a heavy rig, I wouldn't.

Berne · May 24, 2006

crash said:
berne I think you might wanna rethink that. with a light rig you can kinda get away with it--but a heavy rig, I wouldn't.

you really think so??....

I've been running bushings at the axle end of my front links for the past 3 years and haven't changed one yet.....
(that is, except my panhard bar, which is heims at both ends....and prolly my biggest concern, side-side movement in the 4-link......not 'as' worried about bushing-induced axle wrap)

crash2 · May 24, 2006

But how often do you run off the front only? have to remember the rear gets constant usage without the front pulling it..

Scott lackey wanted me to use the same setup when I built his linked 4 runner and after about 3 runs the edges of the bushings started to wear/spit out...

Berne · May 24, 2006

crash said:
But how often do you run off the front only? have to remember the rear gets constant usage without the front pulling it..

Scott lackey wanted me to use the same setup when I built his linked 4 runner and after about 3 runs the edges of the bushings started to wear/spit out...

OK.....so.....question...
the "edges of the bushing..." thing sounds to me like you set the bushings up to run parralell to the axis of the axle, and not necciessarily perpendicular to the link itself....

was that the case??

crash2 · May 24, 2006

Berne said:
OK.....so.....question...
the "edges of the bushing..." thing sounds to me like you set the bushings up to run parralell to the axis of the axle, and not necciessarily perpendicular to the link itself....

was that the case??

No the busings were perpendicular to the link..

Berne · May 24, 2006

crash said:
No the busings were perpendicular to the link..

but it was just the edges rounding off/spitting out??....you sure it wasn't the whole bushing failing and slowly sqeezing out??

hmm....

so....what do you suggest then????....

I don't think I'd trust the shank of any sort of rod-end short of the big bastards....
I honestly don't think I need the angularity of another 'joint' down there...
I don't need the adjustment of having both ends of the link adjustable...
not sure I trust a 9/16" bolt down there (johnny joint) to get beat on like they will....
something "like" a bushing that welds directly to the end of the link would be ideal.....
these are going at the axle end, so they'll be drug through the mud the most...

suggestions?

crash2 · May 24, 2006

Berne said:
but it was just the edges rounding off/spitting out??....you sure it wasn't the whole bushing failing and slowly sqeezing out??

hmm....

so....what do you suggest then????....

I don't think I'd trust the shank of any sort of rod-end short of the big bastards....
I honestly don't think I need the angularity of another 'joint' down there...
I don't need the adjustment of having both ends of the link adjustable...
not sure I trust a 9/16" bolt down there (johnny joint) to get beat on like they will....
something "like" a bushing that welds directly to the end of the link would be ideal.....
these are going at the axle end, so they'll be drug through the mud the most...

suggestions?

yES it was the edges that would get chewed up. Something we looked at doing was cutting the edges of and having some big brass washers to go in its place but the rig got sold before we could do that. The body of the bushing was ok though..

IMO (and if I was to do do it again I would to) I would go with a johny type joint...

Berne · May 24, 2006

crash said:
yES it was the edges that would get chewed up. Something we looked at doing was cutting the edges of and having some big brass washers to go in its place but the rig got sold before we could do that. The body of the bushing was ok though..

IMO (and if I was to do do it again I would to) I would go with a johny type joint...

what was at the other end of these links??....rod ends, JJ's....????...

was it verified that whatever joint at the other end of the links had enough mis-alignment to account for the articulation??

just sounds fishy that only the edges of the bushing was getting beat up...

crash2 · May 24, 2006

Berne said:
what was at the other end of these links??....rod ends, JJ's....????...

was it verified that whatever joint at the other end of the links had enough mis-alignment to account for the articulation??

just sounds fishy that only the edges of the bushing was getting beat up...

We ran hiems on the other end and I "think" it had enough travel with one hiem but that skips my memory bank

.

The bushings were getting damaged due to side loads (normal charateristic of the inverted 4 link vs. the double triangulated) from side hilling it which caused the axle to walk to the side from the bushing causing the edge of the bushing to get chewed...

Berne · May 24, 2006

crash said:
We ran hiems on the other end and I "think" it had enough travel with one hiem but that skips my memory bank .

The bushings were getting damaged due to side loads (normal charateristic of the inverted 4 link vs. the double triangulated) from side hilling it which caused the axle to walk to the side from the bushing causing the edge of the bushing to get chewed...

hmm....
and this (in a round'about way) is my biggest concern w/ the bushings....

probably what you were seeing, was that in a |V| setup, there is alot more stress on the all the links under a side load, since only the "V" links are counter-acting it........so, I'd bet that the bushings were just deflecting enough to start to ride on the sides of them and not dead-center. They weren't really being "side-loaded", since a simple link like that cannot do anything but push and pull.......

this discussion may have solidified my revised design of more triangulation in the lowers.... 'XX' style....