OHV Park ownership: Viable business or hobby?

redneckengineered · Mar 24, 2015

TBItoy said:
I'm just wondering about the real numbers, are/can OHV parks be a viable business to actually make a living, or is it more of a hobby business that's fun enough and self sustaining enough to stay open?

I realize that there are many factors that can make our break any business, but I'm thinking more in generalities.

AOP is my local park and I know the owner Tom quite well. He's poured his heart and soul into that park and it shows. I look at it like this. A park is like a hotel. You have to keep it full. You can't just rely on walk in traffic or tourists to keep your rooms full and the place at capacity. That's supplemental income. Most hotels are planning one event after another in order to stay at capacity. A park is no different. If you're not willing to promote the hell out of your place and host big events throughout the year I don't see how you survive.

gsell · Mar 24, 2015

I still think the GAP could make it as a full time park. It was unusual from a location standpoint, further south, six miles off the interstate (I-85), one of the best cities in the country to visit, Auburn. (Sorry Alabama fans ;D ) The thing that stood out about the GAP is the owners, the Glass Family, you could take anything from a skateboard to an all out bouncer and have something to do. John would always take your opinion and advice and have another obstacle the next time you went. We would typically go there 5 or six times a year, their opening times were limited, but we were there as often as possible. We took, 4 wheelers, 6x6's, rzr's, crawlers, Barbie jeeps etc and would bring everyone we could get to go. (You know mama and them) The place was maintained very nicely and the security guards were always cool and usually a blast to cut up with. I would think a person could take that park, (if the land was owned) and make a go of it, maybe add a small "Pro" shop like Durhamtown and go from there.... anyway I could ramble for hours on this subject because I would really like to see this park reopened. My 2 cents.....

zukiscott · Mar 24, 2015

Yes Auburn GAP needs to be reopened,great venue for wheelin and endurance racing,,,the GAP was one of the most fun courses I ever raced on.

And those rock trails / obstacles Mr. John Glass built on that property.....damn... and plus I always liked wheelin were it was a golf course when I was a kid.

TBItoy · Mar 24, 2015

Re: Re: OHV Park ownership: Viable business or hobby?

redneckengineered said:
AOP is my local park and I know the owner Tom quite well. He's poured his heart and soul into that park and it shows. I look at it like this. A park is like a hotel. You have to keep it full. You can't just rely on walk in traffic or tourists to keep your rooms full and the place at capacity. That's supplemental income. Most hotels are planning one event after another in order to stay at capacity. A park is no different. If you're not willing to promote the hell out of your place and host big events throughout the year I don't see how you survive.

If I could swing it, I'd love to own GMP and promote it like Tom does AOP, or Trey does Choccolocco.

Molly Hatchet · Mar 24, 2015

Neal3000 said:
x3, one that doesn't suck (durhamtown)

X4

J.A.B · Mar 24, 2015

Re: Re: OHV Park ownership: Viable business or hobby?

TBItoy said:
If I could swing it, I'd love to own GMP and promote it like Tom does AOP, or Trey does Choccolocco.

Is it for sale

TBItoy · Mar 24, 2015

Re: Re: Re: OHV Park ownership: Viable business or hobby?

J.A.B said:
Is it for sale

No, I don't think so. Although I reckon everything is for sale...

offroadohio · Mar 24, 2015

Re:

I think it would be tough to make it profitable enough to live off.

But if you tied it with other things such as a fabshop or other offroad based buisness I think you'd be ok.

I know a couple folks who operate small parks here in ohio. The better ran of the two owns the land but he also works a full-time job and uses his weekend's to maintain the trails. And let's those of us who help out in for free. He gets cheap labor from us that way.

The other guy leases the land works his butt off every weekend and makes no money at all.

sent on tapatalk

ATX780 · Mar 24, 2015

Given a few exceptions, I don't think a park would be able to provide a consistent income that can be projected on it's own.

Sure, it can make a good deal of money, but it can also cost a crazy amount of $$ I.E.- Insurance, to develop and keep up the land, install and maintain lodging and facilities, staff, security, etc...

Having said that, I believe that if one were to set it up properly to where they weren't relying solely on the park for income, I think they could make it work.

For instance: It's already been stated in this thread, you could supplement the income by leaving a part to the side for tree farming. I know a few people in my area that do it and make damn good $$ at it... and it doesn't take up all of their time. I also think that if someone was a talented fabricator and was able to run their own business - that they could actually run a small offroad shop at the same place.

At least, that's how I would do it. I'd form an umbrella corp that owned the three other smaller companies and I'd either get a partner for each or just set it up to where I'd hire a staff and manage them all. I could see it working out well if someone found a GOOD piece of land to do this on.

The problem is (as I see it)- this would take a SUBSTANTIALLY LARGE initial investment. The smaller issue is staffing.

zukiscott · Mar 24, 2015

A damn good piece of property was the old MSORP property Northeast of Gadsden.....the problem was the insurance.

paradisepwoffrd · Mar 24, 2015

Re: Re: OHV Park ownership: Viable business or hobby?

clemsonjeep said:
If I were to buy some property to run a park...I'd try to find one to manage the timber on as well and rotate areas every so many years to help pay for the property and the maintenance costs. That's why you'll see a lot of people buy a place, and then cut it. They're probably paying for the property with that cut and will reforest it and then use it to suit their needs.

I think this is it. While I like riding in the woods, if having to ride on a piece of clear cut property with good trails meant that it would be around, count me in.

Cut trails all over the property, close and cut 20% per year. this also let's the trails get cleaned and recover.

Add additional things for other income.

A local bike park has half the mountain set aside for cutting as needed and it works for them.

While I hate the mud tracks, they can bring in money at events. But as mentioned, you gotta promote.

I think it's possible to lease and be successful, but you have to get the lease right. The downside is you could loose all the hard work if the owner decides to not renew.

There was a long time park in the nc mountains that was closed a few years back. Owner died and after running it for the remaining year the daughter said there wasn't enough money to be made to convince her to move back from FL. She also didn't spend much on the park, had a hard time keeping trespassers out, didn't promote it a ton, and lastly didn't care about offroading like her dad. Idk if anything has happened with property since but real estate is being developed for big money in that area, so it's hard to compete.

LandSpeeder · Mar 24, 2015

gsell said:
I still think the GAP could make it as a full time park. It was unusual from a location standpoint, further south, six miles off the interstate (I-85), one of the best cities in the country to visit, Auburn. (Sorry Alabama fans ;D ) The thing that stood out about the GAP is the owners, the Glass Family, you could take anything from a skateboard to an all out bouncer and have something to do. John would always take your opinion and advice and have another obstacle the next time you went. We would typically go there 5 or six times a year, their opening times were limited, but we were there as often as possible. We took, 4 wheelers, 6x6's, rzr's, crawlers, Barbie jeeps etc and would bring everyone we could get to go. (You know mama and them) The place was maintained very nicely and the security guards were always cool and usually a blast to cut up with. I would think a person could take that park, (if the land was owned) and make a go of it, maybe add a small "Pro" shop like Durhamtown and go from there.... anyway I could ramble for hours on this subject because I would really like to see this park reopened. My 2 cents.....

If I could buy the land, then I'd be yer dingleberry. I'd consider it my retirement. Live on-site. Build a shop. rent out a few trailers to offroad-minded college kids who had their head on straight (basically the guys I hung out with in Auburn). I'd totally move back down there for this. But. The land aint "fore cell"

patooyee · Mar 24, 2015

The owner of Boggs and Boulders lives completely off his land right now. Granted, he's had stuff going on in his past that made him wealthy, but right now the land is all he says he needs. And just from my own observations, he seems to live very comfortably. He ranches, mines for sand rock, has 2 oil wells, and the ORV. He maintains the ORV better than any other park I've been to. He has an on-site restaurant, parts store, concert stage with lighting and sound system, nice showers and bathroom, trailers and cabins for rent, mud, sand, and rocks. Also a swimming hole to chill out in during the summer complete with rope swing. Its the only place you can ride and drive right up next to a rock mining operation, livestock, and oil drills.

Sxs are his main customers. You all have never been to an offroad event like some of the sxs events he has there, I promise. His bigger events will have thousands of sxs registrations all in the park at once. He's got to take in over $100k in one weekend at one of those events.

LandSpeeder · Mar 24, 2015

patooyee said:
The owner of Boggs and Boulders lives completely off his land right now. Granted, he's had stuff going on in his past that made him wealthy, but right now the land is all he says he needs. And just from my own observations, he seems to live very comfortably. He ranches, mines for sand rock, has 2 oil wells, and the ORV. He maintains the ORV better than any other park I've been to. He has an on-site restaurant, parts store, concert stage with lighting and sound system, nice showers and bathroom, trailers and cabins for rent, mud, sand, and rocks. Also a swimming hole to chill out in during the summer complete with rope swing. Its the only place you can ride and drive right up next to a rock mining operation, livestock, and oil drills. Sxs are his main customers. You all have never been to an offroad event like some of the sxs events he has there, I promise. His bigger events will have thousands of sxs registrations all in the park at once. He's got to take in over $100k in one weekend at one of those events.

He was already wealthy which is why/how he opened BnB. Been knowing of that extended family since before I was born.

patooyee · Mar 24, 2015

LandSpeeder said:
He was already wealthy which is why/how he opened BnB. Been knowing of that extended family since before I was born.

Yes, I mentioned that. But he seems to be doing very well with the land / park. Maybe he's just floating it all as a hobby though in which case that's kind of the point of the thread. I was talking to him last time I was there though and he was talking about income statements, year over year percentages, stone quality surveys, etc. Not the kind of talk that someone who is just doing it for fun talks about.

Scarecrow · Mar 24, 2015

LandSpeeder said:
If I could buy the land, then I'd be yer dingleberry. I'd consider it my retirement. Live on-site. Build a shop. rent out a few trailers to offroad-minded college kids who had their head on straight (basically the guys I hung out with in Auburn). I'd totally move back down there for this. But. The land aint "fore cell"

Lease it Eric and give it a go. I don't know what the price of the lease is but if it could be done I'd almost do it myself. I remember talking to John when he started bringing in all the rocks and he told me how much he had spent on rocks so far and I thought, man you aint never gone make it spending 10K on rocks, but when I saw the numbers from the Rockfest events I thought different. I think the last rockfest brought in around 1600 people over the weekend and that's at a minimum of $30 a head. 1600 x $30 = $48000 plus concessions. I don't know what his insurance cost were or his staff which was large for a park. I think if you did 4 big events a year you could do well, maintenance may be an issue since John had all his own equipment and the new leaser may not. The only down side at the GAP in my opinion was the 4wheeler/mud crowd but they were also the ones bringing in a good bit of the money, for every rock crawler there there was 20 4wheelers. The 4wheeler crowd thinned out after John started enforcing some new behavior rules, but I was there the weekend before when things got out of control.

Long story short I sure do miss the GAP and if anyone is looking at reopening I'll help out any way I can.

LandSpeeder · Mar 24, 2015

Scarecrow said:
Lease it Eric and give it a go. I don't know what the price of the lease is but if it could be done I'd almost do it myself. I remember talking to John when he started bringing in all the rocks and he told me how much he had spent on rocks so far and I thought, man you aint never gone make it spending 10K on rocks, but when I saw the numbers from the Rockfest events I thought different. I think the last rockfest brought in around 1600 people over the weekend and that's at a minimum of $30 a head. 1600 x $30 = $48000 plus concessions. I don't know what his insurance cost were or his staff which was large for a park. I think if you did 4 big events a year you could do well, maintenance may be an issue since John had all his own equipment and the new leaser may not. The only down side at the GAP in my opinion was the 4wheeler/mud crowd but they were also the ones bringing in a good bit of the money, for every rock crawler there there was 20 4wheelers. The 4wheeler crowd thinned out after John started enforcing some new behavior rules, but I was there the weekend before when things got out of control.

Long story short I sure do miss the GAP and if anyone is looking at reopening I'll help out any way I can.

I will never ever lease anything from that land owner. Anyone who has ever leased from him, has failed. He's not a good landlord.
I'd buy it, because I love it, like ya'll. But I would only answer to myself, not a land owner.

sledneck · Mar 24, 2015

It seems like Rausch Creek here in PA does alright. They offer off roading 101 classes aimed at the newbies and I'm sure some of the new Jeep owners jump at this kind of stuff. They also started offering some dune buggie type rental stuff. The park is pretty expensive but it nice and clean. 1 place in Ohio that opens once a month is used as a class 3/gun range and a small rock and sand quarry if I remember. This place is super nice, you wouldn't think you were at a off road park that's for sure. They also have good food and concessions, good camping both primitive and hook ups. Seems like this place is a small gold mine in the summer.

MonnlightRacing77 · Mar 24, 2015

Family owns a park here in Missouri. 600 acres been in the family since 1907. Great Grandpa payed for it in full. So we only have to pays property tax and income tax. Used to just rent 90 acres of pastures out to neighbor for $2000 a year. wasn't even enough to pay property tax $2750 a year. Dad and I was always into off roading. So we decide to open to the public in 2008. Last year we made just shy of $40,000. And this year we are on our way to make more. We make enough to pay bills, buy parts and toys. Plus its way funnier than having to watch cows eat

muddinmetal · Mar 24, 2015

MoonlightRacing77 said:
Family owns a park here in Missouri. 600 acres been in the family since 1907. Great Grandpa payed for it in full. So we only have to pays property tax and income tax. Used to just rent 90 acres of pastures out to neighbor for $2000 a year. wasn't even enough to pay property tax $2750 a year. Dad and I was always into off roading. So we decide to open to the public in 2008. Last year we made just shy of $40,000. And this year we are on our way to make more. We make enough to pay bills, buy parts and toys. Plus its way funnier than having to watch cows eat

Insurance?