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plz help... coil over problem!!

I don't ever advise anyone to run a triple rate set up. That triple rate's top spring's only purpose is to keep the springs in line when they droop out too far. Mainly because the suspension wasn't designed properly. That 20 pound spring is never going to push a tire down hard enough to make traction.

My explanation on the fix came from the assumption that he had the correct spring rates and there would be no reason to change them. If his ride was too high, and "he was happy with the way it handled and drove" then that would be the fix.

Guessing he hasn't drove it yet but that was my most decent guess through the internet. I enjoyed the question TacomaJD
 
Dynamite Design said:
What is x?
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Had some **** typed, but deleted it because I'm not 100% sure of how the 2" shorter tender coil would work. I understand fully what the triple rate is. I was saying if it's too stiff with the current spring rates, if he goes to a 2" shorter spring on top, he might have to use a triple rate helper coil to keep his **** lined up if the shock extends past length of the springs between the lower spring seat and where the spanner nuts are set at to obtain correct ride height.

I'm no shock expert, but it's just hard to see why you would tune c/o's with spring lengths instead of spring weights. His original post states on his 14" shocks, both his springs are 14" each. And both the springs on the 16" shock, are 16" each. Not the typical rule of thumb of having your lower spring 2" longer than shock travel....thus meaning his spring lengths are already 2" shorter than the "norm" and you recommend taking even 2 more inches out? This would sound like his springs would remain so stiff in relation to his sprung weight, that:
He wouldn't be able to preload hardly any without raising ride height
His spanner nuts would be ran way down the shock body to compensate for the shorter springs.
Since his lower spring is not on the "long" side, being equal to shock travel, how will this affect his dual rate stop ring?

Again, maybe my understanding of this is wrong, that's why I'm here....to learn.

While his spring rates are not just heavy, there is still plenty wiggle room to go lighter on the front, and a little wiggle room in the back. I would suggest, getting it done and to go drive it around the yard first, before tweaking with spring rates or lengths anyways, though.
 
Did i not do enough homework before ordering my spring lenghts? i assumed that a 14 used 14 uppers and lowers. this being my first build it never crossed my mind that that may not be the way to go. i did right by getting the corner weights and sprung, unsprung and doing math to get spring weight numbers. i even gave weights to pac racing and verified with them that what i had was right. As i stated before, it sat perfect without nitrogen charge, although my preload was 3" down. Now it all the way out on the threads.
 
jdsharp81 said:
Did i not do enough homework before ordering my spring lenghts? i assumed that a 14 used 14 uppers and lowers. this being my first build it never crossed my mind that that may not be the way to go. i did right by getting the corner weights and sprung, unsprung and doing math to get spring weight numbers. i even gave weights to pac racing and verified with them that what i had was right. As i stated before, it sat perfect without nitrogen charge, although my preload was 3" down. Now it all the way out on the threads.
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Plenty folks run equal length springs and they tune out fine. It's just a new rule of thumb I guess, to have your lower spring 2" longer than shock travel, and upper spring equal to shock travel. If you order coilovers from Jimmy at EOR, he'll send em to you like that too. He knows his **** on suspensions, so I figure if I read about a lot of folks recommending it and then Jimmy sets his up that way too, must me a good rule of thumb to follow.
 
i wish i would have known that before dropping almost 600 on springs! next build will have ORI's and wont have to worry about this crap.
 
Re: Re: Re: plz help... coil over problem!!

jdsharp81 said:
i wish i would have known that before dropping almost 600 on springs! next build will have ORI's and wont have to worry about this crap.
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$600 sounds steep on springs! You should've been able to find good ones for about $40-50 a pc. It's all trial and error. If you had ordered c/o's new from EOR, they will usually swap springs out if needed, long as the springs aren't scuffed or damaged and you pay shipping, which ain't **** to be able to try different springs. It just takes a little time to dial in, once they're set, they're set and you don't have to fawk with it anymore. You just have to try one thing, assess, then make a change, assess again, repeat until right.

Be surprised how much of a difference 50 lbs worth of spring rate will make. I started with 100/200 on front of my Toyota, (2" longer spring on bottom). Had preload cranked way down and it was still sitting low in front (air shocks already set in the rear). Swapped the 100 top for a 150 top, so 150/200, and it make a huge difference in picking the front end up with not near as much preload...works great now. Same would be if you swapped to lighter springs on the top. Even though you are pretty light with spring rates already, there's still room to lighten up a bit. Daniel Dennis is running 100/100 on the c/o's on one end of his Sami I believe, and it works perfect. Stable and sits where he wants it. He had to lighten up spring rates to get it like that.

Drive it around, if it's stable when turning or in off camber situations and rides stiff, you could stand to lighten your spring rates. It it rides super soft and has some body roll going on while turning or while off camber, then you might not need to lighten up very much and try a different approach.

Again, this is just what I'd do if it were mine. I'm no shock guru whatsoever, just my take on things. I'm still relatively new dealing with c/o's, but researched the **** out of spring rates and talked to EOR before ordering.
 
Its extremely common to run shorter tender springs, it's really not a big deal at all on a trail rig.
 
Re:

I went with pac recommendation as well. Ended up changing most of what I had because it was wrong. I dropped to lighter springs from what they told me.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
 
talked to jimmy today and he said i was very close to spring rates, close enough to not change anything yet. He said that sometimes after the shocks have sat a while ( almost 2 years in my case ) the piston can sometimes stick. Told me to drive it around and flex it a couple times and it should settle some when the oil warms up.
 
jdsharp81 said:
talked to jimmy today and he said i was very close to spring rates, close enough to not change anything yet. He said that sometimes after the shocks have sat a while ( almost 2 years in my case ) the piston can sometimes stick. Told me to drive it around and flex it a couple times and it should settle some when the oil warms up.
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Jimmy is the man :dblthumb:
 
Since you recently charged the shocks and you're supposed to charge them fully extended, then you sat the weight of the rig back down on them, I don't see how a piston sticking could be the problem anyways...he may have just been trying to give you a reason to get out and drive it around.

You did charge the shocks with them fully extended, right?
 
jdsharp81 said:
Did i not do enough homework before ordering my spring lenghts? i assumed that a 14 used 14 uppers and lowers. this being my first build it never crossed my mind that that may not be the way to go. i did right by getting the corner weights and sprung, unsprung and doing math to get spring weight numbers. i even gave weights to pac racing and verified with them that what i had was right. As i stated before, it sat perfect without nitrogen charge, although my preload was 3" down. Now it all the way out on the threads.
Click to expand...

It seems pretty obvious to me that your shock mounts are too low,....either cut 'em off and fix it, get shorter springs, or just live with it are pretty much your options imo
 
Re: Re: Re: plz help... coil over problem!!

jdsharp81 said:
yes fully extended. pick up with forklift before charging
Click to expand...

Are the driveshafts in the rig? Did you drive it after charging the shocks?
 

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