Reiter- for those who give a rip.

[japerry]

And some of that is caused from ground open to rainfall because it doesn't have a canopy to protect it anymore.

But, some of its caused from the silt running out of the melting glaciers, or open pit mining.

It's all relative, we cannot change what mother nature does, but we can change what humans do, we can manage how we cut our timber, or expand our suburbs. To say that human impact doesn't effect siltation is simply ignorant.

But, to say that wheeling is a major contributor to siltation is also VERY ignorant.

Yes. agreed. There is a difference between wheelers causing environmental damage by actually running over fish habitat, and wheelers that might potentially have some impact 5 miles from fish habitat from wheeling.

The biggest problem we have is that on a macro scale, our trails look disgusting and can be easily shown in a photo as 'bad for the environment'. But the actual impact (resource damage, land slides, etc, etc) is minimal compared to other human development activity.

 

[beyatch]

You have to remember that their damage (landslides) occur on private property, while we wheel on public land....big difference

I'm thinking of that huge landslide in Chehalis after it was logged. That area had huge flood the deposited large amounts of silt into the river. I think this link covers it....

http://wflc.org/inthenews/landslidesflooding/3.29.10Times

 

[boardbysled]

The biggest problem we have is that on a macro scale, our trails look disgusting and can be easily shown in a photo as 'bad for the environment'. But the actual impact (resource damage, land slides, etc, etc) is minimal compared to other human development activity.

Yep.:cheer:

I'll use my overused example:

ORV trails are but a grain of sand in the sandbox of Western Washington.

I believe ORV trails are a sin that our land can sustain quite easily. Unfortunetly, others (general population) do not see this logic.

 

[nowires]

. That area had huge flood the deposited large amounts of silt into the river. I think this link covers it....

http://wflc.org/inthenews/landslidesflooding/3.29.10Times

I live on the Skykomish and right across from my house there is a gravel bar that comes and goes every year

Prob close to 1000 yds of material

 

[CHOP SHOP]

The problem with sediment and wheelers is allot different than sediment and nature.

Wheelers put sediment into streams and slow moving waters (good spawning beds) that covers gravel with the sediment when it falls out of the slow moving water in the slower/lower waters of the mild seasons.

Nature deposits sediment in times of flood or rain or melt off. This is in the same season that the rivers and streams are higher and flow faster taking the sediment further downstream and depositing it in slow moving lakes and places it has collected for centuries.

 

[crash2]

The whole river crossing/sediment in streams has always bugged me.

We can take the may creek crossing as a prime example of a perfect crossing. Hard bottom with only what is on a rig when it enters the water to add anything to the water.

One thing that has always bugged me and something myself and others I know and thats to have a rig with no excessive leaks.

 

[boardbysled]

The problem with sediment and wheelers is allot different than sediment and nature.

Wheelers put sediment into streams and slow moving waters (good spawning beds) that covers gravel with the sediment when it falls out of the slow moving water in the slower/lower waters of the mild seasons.

Nature deposits sediment in times of flood or rain or melt off. This is in the same season that the rivers and streams are higher and flow faster taking the sediment further downstream and depositing it in slow moving lakes and places it has collected for centuries.

Whoa, intelligent post by the Chopster, who woulda thunk!:redneck:



You also have to look at it like this, wheeling is a recreational sport, thus its more under-fire than say, logging for example, as logging makes landowners money, recreation (in general) doesn't.

 

[boardbysled]

The whole river crossing/sediment in streams has always bugged me.

We can take the may creek crossing as a prime example of a perfect crossing. Hard bottom with only what is on a rig when it enters the water to add anything to the water.

One thing that has always bugged me and something myself and others I know and thats to have a rig with no excessive leaks.

In the 80's, fords used to be the prefered method of crossing a fast moving body of water. Nowdays, there are tons of regulations that make it hard to do a ford. (That sounded dirty.:haha There are a few reasons behind these regulations.

 

[nowires]

as logging makes landowners money, recreation (in general) doesn't.

But Recreation does make more money for the state than loggging does anymore

 

[boardbysled]

But Recreation does make more money for the state than loggging does anymore

Care to explain?

 

[nowires]

Care to explain?

With all the new laws that are going into logging, and timber prices. It will not make the profit that it use to be
Remember the laws that just got passed about logging roads and sediment run off. How many millions of dollars will it take to bring all if the logging roads on DNR land up to spec

 

[boardbysled]

With all the new laws that are going into logging, and timber prices. It will not make the profit that it use to be
Remember the laws that just got passed about logging roads and sediment run off. How many millions of dollars will it take to bring all if the logging roads on DNR land up to spec

Yes, I understand this, more input costs, less output profit. But, how does recreation make more money for the state? From what I have seen, they are mearly surviving off grants.

 

[nowires]

Yes, I understand this, more input costs, less output profit. But, how does recreation make more money for the state? From what I have seen, they are mearly surviving off grants.

Tax revenue

 

[boardbysled]

Tax revenue

NOVA funding correct? That funding got redistributed went to Parks Dept. and pulled from the DNR I thought?

 

[nowires]

NOVA funding correct? That funding got redistributed went to Parks Dept. and pulled from the DNR I thought?

No just the buying and selling of parts, rigs new ORVs ect

Take into acount all outdoor motorized recreation and events

and since it is outdoor recreation count the tax revenue off of non motorized sports
Hiking, camping. rafting ect

 

[boardbysled]

No just the buying and selling of parts, rigs new ORVs ect

Take into acount all outdoor motorized recreation and events

and since it is outdoor recreation count the tax revenue off of non motorized sports
Hiking, camping. rafting ect

Ah indirect. I was thinking 2 dimensional, like DNR directly receives monies for Timber.

 

[nowires]

Ah indirect. I was thinking 2 dimensional, like DNR directly receives monies for Timber.

then take into account net profit to the state. Not gross