Running trails

[Nuzzy]

Trying to put definitions on things like bypasses and such really isn't going to help anyone as there is always exceptions to the rule. Speaking of rules like NotMat said there really aren't any to speak of. There's no rule to yield to a broken rig coming down the trail. There's no rule to not park in the middle of the trail and go sight see while everyone else gets stuck behind you. There's no rule (at Reiter) to stay on a specific path. The answer to all of this is just general education and if everyone knows what their supposed to do, rule or not maybe then we will all respect each other and not do too many stupid things. Maybe even leave something worthwhile behind for the next guy to wheel.:stirpot:

Very well put...

 

[Comet]

Fact: Reiter is not officially a free for all like NotMatt said. Officially the DNR has stated that you are to stay on existing trails and not create new ones.

Fact: By passes have a place in 4 wheeling and always will. I am not saying they ever should have been created at Sac up, but they were, it's over, deal with it.
Opinion: I firmly believe if all by passes at Sac Up were blocked, new ones would quickly replace them, so we should think seriously about having a preferred by pass. Without a shoe fly or difficulty rating on that trail, I think it's short sighted to not have a by pass. Telling people if they don't have a winch or aren't built then they should stay off the trail doesn't help much when it's not marked or has no shoe fly. Given the history of trail making at Reiter it's fool hearty to think people will simply turn around. Some probably have, but it's clear with all the by passes that most have not.

 

[crash2]

Trying to put definitions on things like bypasses and such really isn't going to help anyone as there is always exceptions to the rule. Speaking of rules like NotMat said there really aren't any to speak of. There's no rule to yield to a broken rig coming down the trail. There's no rule to not park in the middle of the trail and go sight see while everyone else gets stuck behind you. There's no rule (at Reiter) to stay on a specific path. The answer to all of this is just general education and if everyone knows what their supposed to do, rule or not maybe then we will all respect each other and not do too many stupid things. Maybe even leave something worthwhile behind for the next guy to wheel.:stirpot:

Very well put rick :;

 

[84Toyota4x4]

My personal stand point on this comes from wheeling a truck that wasnt equipped to run a lot of the trails as they were "intended".

I used to start a trail, and if I saw an obsticle that I may or may not get over, I would try it a few times, and when I was sure that I couldnt get past it, I would go around, if applicable.

HOWEVER, never ONCE would I even THINK about bush whacking and cutting a new trail simply because I couldnt get past an obsticle. I would get mad that my truck would get over, turn around, and go back.

So, as you an see, I feel that using ESTABLISHED bypasses is perfectly fine. However, I DO NOT agree with people who trample all the brush and shrubs simply to get around something they shouldnt be driving over in the first place.

Now then, I have to ask Jobless... What about bypasses that are seasonal? Say for instance a trail you are running goes through a large mud bog in the wet months, but in the summer, its easy driving through ruts. Is it ok, in the wet months, instead of drowning your truck because the water comes over your hood, to use the bypass around? Or do you just turn around simply because you dont have a snorkel/breathers set up on your truck?

If the bypass is there, whats the harm in using it?

~T.J.

 

[KarlVP]

Okay, I don't think people are seeing my point.

A bypass IMHO, is something in place to go around an obstacle that is too hard. Why break your rig or tear up the trail trying in vain to get somewhere that you can't. An established bypass is an easy thing to do.

I have never, nor will ever bash through the woods if I can't make an obstacle. But on Sac - up you have hard asswhooping obstacles that guys in BUGGIES have a hard time making. Does this mean sac - up is a buggie trail?

Or does this mean that the original trail was easy and the buggie guys went off and made harder obstacles. :flipoff:

 

[FiFo]

Personally I like going out with groups of widely varying skill and vehicle levels and believe by-passes make it possible for us all to go out and have a good time. I have been out with Crash and his buggy, where he hit every obstacle and backed out of none. While at the same time fairly stock TJs followed along watching Crash show us how it is done and me showing them how it is not. Sure the close to stock rigs took most if not all by-passes but everyone had a good time and hopefully coming out will encourage them to be responsible wheelers and work on there rigs and skill level until they too can manage the harder line.

 

[TB-F]

In all rights all of sack up is a bypass. It was originaly a motorcycle trail that got widened out...then realy widened out.

 

[KarlVP]

In all rights all of sack up is a bypass. It was originaly a motorcycle trail that got widened out...then realy widened out.

It should be closed then. End of discussion. :kissmyass:

 

[craig1]

What about bypasses that are seasonal? Say for instance a trail you are running goes through a large mud bog in the wet months, but in the summer, its easy driving through ruts. Is it ok, in the wet months, instead of drowning your truck because the water comes over your hood, to use the bypass around? Or do you just turn around simply because you dont have a snorkel/breathers set up on your truck?

If the bypass is there, whats the harm in using it?

~T.J.

This is precisely when you *should not* use a bypass. When things are so wet/muddy that the tank trap is full, the ground next to it, where the bypass is, is soft. If you drive on the bypass then it will erode. After enough people drive on it, it will turn into another tank trap. Then someone will create another bypass and the problem will repeat itself. The trail gets wider, and wider, and wider.

Run the trail. If the trail is getting eroded to the point that you can't make it join a work party and help fix it.

 

[84Toyota4x4]

Good point. Never really thought of it like that.

~T.J.

 

[Rock_Crusher]

whew.........

*ByPasses / Go-Arounds.

Where would we all be w/o them?

=========================================

I'll try to give my opinion after hearing most of yours.
a desert / sand dune, I'll use as a example in one... actually appears to change as the wind blows - sort of like melting snow, or rapid falling snow.
you don't see the footprints as the new snow falls & covers them up, right?

like the sand tracks, as more sand moves from the wind, it appears to cover the tracks, right?

WRONG, the tracks are still there... YES they were covered up, but they continue to "PUSH" down the soil... like making a 1st time run through BRUSH.
everytime you run over a new area, it changes...

like the sand / snow...

you might not see the 1st trail / tire tracks there, but "you" will see it most likely in the forest / woods setting. and it's the 2nd set of tracks that confirms it. followed by the 3rd & 4th & etc until, it now looks like a road.

================================================

I think "ALL TRAILS" should be SIDELINED! (.) <--- period.
even Tahuya is becoming a fenced / sidelined trail system. small fallen trees are collected, not cut down... and used to outline the "ORIGINAL" trail or new trail or by-pass. while i understand proper trail useage, alot do not.

BUT, outlining trails w/ sidelines - makes it pretty clear, where the trail/s are & where you are supposed to be. it DOESN'T get any simpler than that! so, if you would of spent as much time on here, typing / reading / etc... think of how many fallen trees - you could of dragged, carried, helped to "OUTLINE" a trail.

w/ that said, let's hear someone disagree w/ me...

=========================================== :corn:

 

[Not Jobless]

Okay, I don't think people are seeing my point.

A bypass IMHO, is something in place to go around an obstacle that is too hard. Why break your rig or tear up the trail trying in vain to get somewhere that you can't.

The correct answer is that you run trails that are more suited to the capabilities of you the driver and your rig. Therefore you do not break while trying an obstacle that is beyond your abilities and you do not add to the extra environmetal impact to an area that bypasses create.

You all seem to forget one important thing. Once there is one bypass made people seem to think that it is OK to create another one...perhaps because the bypass that is there is not challenging enough for them?

 

[MNboy]

The correct answer is that you run trails that are more suited to the capabilities of you the driver and your rig. Therefore you do not break while trying an obstacle that is beyond your abilities and you do not add to the extra environmetal impact to an area that bypasses create.

You all seem to forget one important thing. Once there is one bypass made people seem to think that it is OK to create another one...perhaps because the bypass that is there is not challenging enough for them?

My question would be how do I know what trails are suitable? To go back to Reiter, without a map and trail ratings I wouldn't know which trails to even try. Someone mentioned asking someone, but realistically if you walk up to someone at the staging area and ask their opinion, are you really going to trust what they say? Until there is a map, trail ratings, and signs for main trails and useable bypasses, you really can't blame people for using trails that are already established, bypass or otherwise. Still doesn't excuse the assholes that trail blaze through the woods to get around stuff, but I'm sure that none of us here would do that so that's probably not the issue.

 

[KarlVP]

The correct answer is that you run trails that are more suited to the capabilities of you the driver and your rig. Therefore you do not break while trying an obstacle that is beyond your abilities and you do not add to the extra environmetal impact to an area that bypasses create.

You all seem to forget one important thing. Once there is one bypass made people seem to think that it is OK to create another one...perhaps because the bypass that is there is not challenging enough for them?

A bypass shouln't be HARD at all. It should be an easy path. Even paved with gravel so it can't erode. If a bypass is eroding, than it should be tended to.

 

[Not Jobless]

A bypass shouln't be HARD at all. It should be an easy path. Even paved with gravel so it can't erode. If a bypass is eroding, than it should be tended to.

Bypasses shouldn't exist at all

and if people came prepared they would never have a need for one

 

[Rock_Crusher]

Bypasses shouldn't exist at all

and if people came prepared they would never have a need for one

More so... Came INFORMED about the trail they are about to run / try.
sometimes trails are not marked, or info on them at that. thats where the trouble starts, then if a rig breaks... others try to go around it... or they see a easy out to a main road & cut off the trail altogether.

I look at Trail building as if it were my own property...

I know ahead of time that the area i'am going to go wheel at will have all sorts of obstacles, could be a fallen tree from a storm, therefore i bring a saw. could be my rig might need a unforseen part, i try to bring spare parts.

most trails, are not MARKED.

alot of them are word of mouth, or following others that know them, as for every rig should be equipped w/ the right stuff... thats never the case.
but every driver should have EDUCATION when it comes to Offroading.

I think if there was a *system in place, that persay;

issued permit's for Offroading, fee's went to ORV use / etc... and in order to get that permit you had to pass a test, that educated you on offroading, that'd be a big start, but until that happens...

there will always be TRAIL ABUSE. unless the trail system is physically manned & patrolled or as most are becoming now, OUTLINED.

 

[sixty-nine]

The correct answer is that you run trails that are more suited to the capabilities of you the driver and your rig. Therefore you do not break while trying an obstacle that is beyond your abilities and you do not add to the extra environmetal impact to an area that bypasses create.

You all seem to forget one important thing. Once there is one bypass made people seem to think that it is OK to create another one...perhaps because the bypass that is there is not challenging enough for them?

i hate to do this but i really do agree with what brad is saying. that makes sense.

 

[FiFo]

So what do you classify as "Prepared"? Are we saying that if you don't have at least 36" IROKs, Lockers front and rear, Warn 8274-50, and an Atlas then you shouldn't be on the trail because you’re not "Prepared"? Should trails only be available to those who can afford a big $ Rig, and everyone else should just go to Tahuya? Or should we make every trail Tahuya easy so that the little boys can play too? By-passes open the trail system up to a wider range of users, with out making each trail end up like Tahuya.

Hypothetically speaking say your friend comes up to you and says "hey I just bought a 98 TJ with 31" tires and I want to get into wheeling. Can you take me out to some trails?" Are you going to say:

A) Sure, though you need to spend another $10K before hand.
B) Ok, but we can only go to Tahuya, or maybe 30 minutes worth of trails at Reiter
C) Sorry, you can’t run the trails me and my friends run so you’re SOL
D) Sure, I can show you some great trails and introduce you to some great people, and if it gets too hard for you, just take the by-pass around the harder obstacles.

Personally I’m going to take them out, and encourage them to take the legal by-passes if the obstacles are too hard for them. Maybe by taking them out we can show them how to wheel responsibly so that they don’t turn into the type of Hill-Billy Rednecks that give the rest of us a bad name.

 

[skrause]

I'm a little of both schools. I don't take bypasses unless the real obstacle poses serious risk of breakage or damage. I don't make bypasses when they don't exist. If the trail is too hard, TURN AROUND AND GO BACK. Why should we say that a Sammi on 31's can't come along when it could run circles around my truck on most NW trails?

It's about educating, not making rules people will just break anyways.

 

[Not Jobless]

It's about educating, not making rules people will just break anyways.

It's the rules that people need to be educated with.

How many of you have gone to Walker Valley and run the Express Way?

Did you go around the rock to the side avoiding it all together...well that is the illegal go-around.

Why is it illegal?

Because it is not part of the trail. Seems pretty straight forward & simple doesn't it.