some state laws and wheeling

[japerry]

If I understand this correctly then this is the interpretation of one police officer?

Yes, although for those who live up north, he is the only officer who represents the sheriff's dept for forestry related calls.

 

[Binder]

Really guys I understand some of your concerns with bringing these things to light and that they can be used by the wrong people. I think of it like this....Greenies are constantly twisting the truth into something which fits their purposes in the name of what they think is right. We bitch about it all of the time and rightly so. If we did the same thing would we be any better than them? The law is the law and it may be wrong but that doesn't mean you can twist it to mean something that fits your purpose.
Morale issues are something completely different but even then you can't impose your morales on others in the name of what you thought was the law......:cheer:

 

[Money Mark]

Yes, although for those who live up north, he is the only officer who represents the sheriff's dept for forestry related calls.

I realize Jakob's intent is education, many of my post are as well........I've been educated and have moved on to implementation.:awesomework: If your intention is similar to mine, you should keep track and get to know these individuals that monitor your proposed or existing secret locational. It's the responsible thing to do.

I did.......and it has saved me much heartache and frustration. It's not surprising how complimentary these individuals can be when approached with respectful query of possible (4x4) use.









Stop thinking and just do it!

 

[japerry]

This is not entirly true, if a piece of DNR (also F.S.) land is surrounded by S.P. land, and does not have road access, they cannot allow you to not be able to access that land, because that piece of DNR land is public land, thus they have to allow public access.

This is a very isolated situation, but some of my favorite high lakes are in this situation.

Yup, good point. There are easements to DNR property in a few spots, and in those cases, the private land owners (usually) won't have gates at their property line.

Example: SPI has some land up on XXX Mtn, you pass through it as you legally drive up to the lookout. They have no gates, and only a sign indicating you're on their land.

Taking that example--if a security guard is sitting at the border, he can tell you to leave and not set foot on the property again. Would he do that on an otherwise open road? No. However, if the guard caught you elsewhere and Persona Non-Gratis'd (PNG) you on SPI land, he could cite you for even crossing SPI land. Even though DNR has an easement, doesn't mean PNG folks can use it.

Does this mean you won't get in trouble if you're using a trail illegally on DNR land that crosses into SPI land? Depends. If you're on a well established (illegal) trail and you're stopped by a security officer, you'll most likely be asked to leave and not come back... PNG'd. He can't ticket you like Ron could. However, if you're cutting timber or blazing new trail, he will probably detain you until an LEO arrived... it all depends on if its your first offense, how serious the damage YOU did was, etc.

LOTS OF GREY uke:

 

[japerry]

I realize Jakob's intent is education, many of my post are as well........I've been educated and have moved on to implementation.:awesomework: If your intention is similar to mine, you should keep track and get to know these individuals that monitor your proposed or existing secret locational. It's the responsible thing to do.

I did.......and it has saved me much heartache and frustration. It's not surprising how complimentary these individuals can be when approached with respectful query of possible (4x4) use.

:awesomework: thanks Mark :cheer:

 

[Money Mark]

I think of it like this....Greenies are constantly twisting the truth into something which fits their purposes in the name of what they think is right.

They do......and we should too.



I've spent some time eaves dropping and participating on the Greeie side, now. They're no better or worse than us........they are smarter.


I want to be smarter. And in the process, I'm going to help folks (that want to listen) get smarter too........with a little help from my friends.:;

 

[Binder]

They do......and we should too.

I don't agree. You can or others can if they want but I won't lower myself to that level. I would sooner pass this step and go straight to illegal wheeling. This is one of those morale things I spoke of. If I get closed out of wheeling due to others lies then I can justify myself breaking the law....Rather not go there though.

 

[supsa]

I will listen. Go on:awesomework:

 

[Money Mark]

I don't agree. You can or others can if they want but I won't lower myself to that level. I would sooner pass this step and go straight to illegal wheeling. This is one of those morale things I spoke of. If I get closed out of wheeling due to others lies then I can justify myself breaking the law....Rather not go there though.

I won't lie either. Temporary situational interpretation of the law is my focus.......only thing that really matters to me. If, if, if......then try it.:awesomework:

And I have no morale standing, really. My ultimate goal is somewhat selfish........I want my wheeling back, and then some. And why not give a little back to my fellow wheeling homey's, while I'm at it.

What do you think we want to do?

 

[Money Mark]

I will listen. Go on:awesomework:

You are on the list.:beer:

 

[Binder]

And I have no morale standing, really. My ultimate goal is somewhat selfish........I want my wheeling back, and then some. And why not give a little back to my fellow wheeling homey's, while I'm at it.

What do you think we want to do?

I never said morales couldn't be selfish. I'm with you there!:awesomework:

 

[Money Mark]

Roger that.......:;

 

[Ty.]

I forget the max fine for 2nd degree tresspassing, but it was pretty high, and up to a year in jail if I recall.

1st degree is the one you really want to avoid, as the penalties are stiffer, and you will loose your gun rights.



-----------------------------------------
They take em' we make em' --I kid ?

 

[The_Shocker]

I wheel and have secret trails on private land. I wheel and have less known trails on DNR land. I trespass with respect and a mindfulness to the owner.

I have ensured that tree damage (actual physical visual marks or scarring) is less evident, if at all. And I have ensured these trails are not used with any regularity, so as to limit the chance of getting a trespassing ticket and notice of perceived damage.

These laws are nothing new (to folks in the know) and I have used the ideas from these laws as a guideline as to how far to push my luck. So far, so good.:awesomework:





If you don't like your interpretation of us (me) encouraging others to act responsibly on rouge trails, then don't interpret it as such.

Apparently some folks have interpreted the meaning of Jakob's interpretation. "Your personal interpretation doesn't mean jack. ":;

Jesus! Settle down there guys. Do you want to know the facts or continue the myths?

I want facts! Please continue Jakob. Thank you.:awesomework:





P.S. Are "you" concerned about the person getting a trespassing ticket or are "you" concerned about the reputation that could be perceived about 4x4er's in general?

If you're concerned about me (the rogue wheeler).......save it.I don't need it.

If you're concerned about the impact to the 4x4 community, are you sure you are not creating the issue? Think about it.


PPS Censorship is a more serious offense that tresspassing.......don't ya think?:beer:

Less known trails on DNR land?

 

[Binder]

I forget the max fine for 2nd degree tresspassing, but it was pretty high, and up to a year in jail if I recall.

1st degree is the one you really want to avoid, as the penalties are stiffer, and you will loose your gun rights.

Nope, I think you are thinking of a fellony.

RCW 9A.52.080
Criminal trespass in the second degree.
(1) A person is guilty of criminal trespass in the second degree if he knowingly enters or remains unlawfully in or upon premises of another under circumstances not constituting criminal trespass in the first degree.

(2) Criminal trespass in the second degree is a misdemeanor.

RCW 9A.52.070
Criminal trespass in the first degree.
(1) A person is guilty of criminal trespass in the first degree if he knowingly enters or remains unlawfully in a building.

(2) Criminal trespass in the first degree is a gross misdemeanor.

RCW 79.02.300
Trespass, waste, damages

 

[japerry]

and everything we're talking about is 2nd degree, since we're not entering a premises.

Also, to get to 2nd degree trespassing requires you to first get a warning or 'kicked out', then come back. If you get cited with trespassing, the first time you'll avoid jail time, and the fine is under $1000. The second time however, 'say hello to pound me in the ass Jail!!!!' And the fine is still the same.

Even if you repeatingly trespass, it won't be anymore than a misdemenor, but the more and more you do it, the better the odds are you'll serve the maximum sentance and fine.

 

[Money Mark]

Less known trails on DNR land?

Do you know about them? Never seen you out that way......

 

[Ty.]

It is unlawful to own, possess or have in control any firearm by a person:

Convicted, or as a juvenile adjudicated, of a felony, serious offense, domestic violence offense if committed after July 1, 1993 (those being: assault in 4th degree, coercion, stalking, reckless endangerment, criminal trespass in 1st degree, violating a protective order and/or violating a restraining order)

Who is free on bond or personal recognizance pending trial, appeal or sentence for a serious offense.

Acquitted of a crime by reason of insanity.

Who has ever been committed by a court due to mental illness, or if the individual is under the age of 18.:corn:

This is what I was talking about for loss of gun rights for 1st degree.


As far as second degree I couldn't find anything on that online, I just recall the judge saying to me I could get up to a year in jail, and I think a 1000 dollar fine. That was many years ago when I was 18 at the Apple blossom festival.

This follows with what Japerry says, becouse the judge told me as long as I plead guilty I would just get a fine. I think it was 500 bucks.
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edit --Money did ya get my PM?
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[Money Mark]

I understand what you're saying Ty.

The steps and life style choices to get a 1st Degree offense is.......well, that's not pushing the limits of the law. That's blatantly and severely breaking it. I don't do that, we don't do that.

I would say when you're (rhetorically speaking) asked to leave, you leave and never come back. That's that.

One thing I do hate to hear (usually from the younger, less experienced wheelers) is going back to a place where folks don't want you.:looser:

I propose the opposite.......go to the places where nobody knows you're there and don't give them a reason to care.:;Respect.

The best bet:
As long as you have done your homework, know where a 4x4 trail should be and get some sort of permission from the owner; you are within the law.

 

[Ty.]

I understand what you're saying Ty.

The steps and life style choices to get a 1st Degree offense is.......well, that's not pushing the limits of the law. That's blatantly and severely breaking it. I don't do that, we don't do that.

I would say when you're (rhetorically speaking) asked to leave, you leave and never come back. That's that.

One thing I do hate to hear (usually from the younger, less experienced wheelers) is going back to a place where folks don't want you.:looser:

I propose the opposite.......go to the places where nobody knows you're there and don't give them a reason to care.:;Respect.

The best bet:
As long as you have done your homework, know where a 4x4 trail should be and get some sort of permission from the owner; you are within the law.

^^^^^^^^^Awsomeness.. now run for office.