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Split Second Decision (CHL)

Re:

I picked up a belly band holster a month ago and it's harder to get out but easier to conceal, and I really needed to be able to conceal because I wasn't supposed to be carrying. It's pretty comfortable and I forget it's there after awhile.

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Dwill817 said:
Y'all could easily carry something like a Shield, G34, LC9 etc all year round no matter what your wearing..

Those little pocket guns like LCPs are so hard to shoot when your standing still trying to shoot good, much less so when your in a bad situation.. you gotta realize that you are accountable for every shot that doesn't hit your intended target as well as the ones that do..

I promise once you get used to it, it's much more comfortable to carry a near full size gun year round..

Had a shield and sold it. Have a 43 but it involves so much more thought about concealment. The LCP is good in everything from shorts to jeans to dress pants. The wallet holster makes it print like a wallet and I have never had anyone pick it out as anything else. The little gun is actually pretty accurate once you learn its quirks. If I am at distances where I can't hit with it, I am rapidly creating more distance so that I (hopefully) can't be hit.
 
creepycrawly said:
Have a 43 but it involves so much more thought about concealment.

Not really.. I swear jeans or shorts and t-shirts everyday I'm off and Ive never had a problem. I've concealed at a wedding in dress pants and a dress shirt. I wear it to church every Sunday. To class. Out on date with my wifes. Literally everywhere I go & so does my wife.

When you stop acting like you have a gun, people stop noticing.. And like I said earlier, people are just glued to their phones and no one has their head on a swivel anymore..

Get a decent holster like Travis (jeeptj99) is talking about and a good belt and it makes a huge difference, I promise. You may feel like the elephant in the room for a little while, but it goes away..

I'm sure you could spot mine if you really stop and looked and waiting for me to turn just right but otherwise, I doubt it. I've walked up to folks open carrying and them not ever notice.
 
Dwill817 said:
Not really.. I swear jeans or shorts and t-shirts everyday I'm off and Ive never had a problem. I've concealed at a wedding in dress pants and a dress shirt. I wear it to church every Sunday. To class. Out on date with my wifes. Literally everywhere I go & so does my wife.

When you stop acting like you have a gun, people stop noticing.. And like I said earlier, people are just glued to their phones and no one has their head on a swivel anymore..

Get a decent holster like Travis (jeeptj99) is talking about and a good belt and it makes a huge difference, I promise. You may feel like the elephant in the room for a little while, but it goes away..

I'm sure you could spot mine if you really stop and looked and waiting for me to turn just right but otherwise, I doubt it. I've walked up to folks open carrying and them not ever notice.


Damn how many " wifes" you have?
 
charlie2tight said:
Were did this take place? I'm allover Houston at times. I daily carry as well. :****:

Hillcroft & West Airport, just north of 90 from the Fort Bend Toll Road.


I've carried a ton of different guns trying to figure out what worked, and a ton of different holsters, pocket stickie things, undershirts, blah blah.
Everyone needs to figure out what best works for them.
In Texas we no longer have that "Print Law" but I still dont like to print a gun shape, or even a heal shape.

I went through a stretch were I loved carrying deep in the 511 Tact undershirts. They seemed perfect for me, Blacksheep10 had been down here and had told me about them. After months of wearing them, I discovered through use, I had to run at all or bend over, no worky. Gun would get spun around, of when leaning over would fall out.

Quick story: as a hobby, I hunt nuisance alligators. We live catch, and then relocate. Routinely have a news crew with us. Must have been mid-June. Had a particularly hard catch, was worn out, beat down, sweaty, and exhausted from catching a 10' bull. After all interviews and neighborhood education session, we go to lift this big boy in the bed of a truck, as I lean over my LC9 falls out of my shirt, bounces off the alligators back, and lands in the grass next to the alligator. The Click2Houston camera man caught it all on film. Talk about embarrassing, and everyone having an awkward laugh as I scramble to pick it up and re-shove it back in that pocket...
 
Glad you and your family were not hurt.
here is some reading for all.......these are the federal guidelines that Law Enforcement Officers have to abide by in the spit second decision on the use of force. Sorry had to copy and paste so not the easiest to read.

Read the last line.........even if the force is justified..........you as a civilian or a sworn officer can be sued and possibly lose the case. SAD but true.

USE OF FORCE

Federal Guidelines for the Use of Force
In 1973, excessive force guidelines were established in Johnson v. Glick, 481 F.2d 1028 (2nd Cir. 1973), which was a corrections case. These guidelines were follows:
1. The need for the application of the force;
2. The relationship between the need for the force and the amount of force used;
3. The extent of injury; and
4. Whether the force was applied in a good faith effort to restore order, or maliciously and sadistically for the sole purpose of causing harm.

A similar decision was administered in a case involving police in Wise v. Bravo, 666 F.2d 1328 (10th Cir. 1981). The court found that a use of force was unconstitutional if:
1. It causes severe injury;
2. The injury was grossly disproportionate to the need for the action under the circumstances; and/or
3. The action was inspired by malice rather than merely careless or unwise excess of zeal so that it amounted to an abuse of official power that shocks the conscience.
In 1985, the U.S. Supreme Court established what is known as the "fleeing felon rule" in Tennessee v. Garner. In this case, an officer in Memphis, Tennessee, shot a fifteen year-old that was fleeing the scene of a residential burglary. The youth was about to get away, and the officer was "reasonably sure" that he was not armed. Under the authority of Tennessee Statute and Memphis P.D. policy at that time, officers were allowed to use deadly force to prevent the escape of fleeing felons. The U.S. Supreme Court ruling was as follows:
"The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony subjects, whatever the circumstances, is constitutionally unreasonable. It is not better that all felony suspects die than that they escape. Where the suspect poses no immediate threat to the officer and no threat to others, the harm resulting from failing to apprehend him does not justify the use of deadly force to do so. It is no doubt unfortunate when a suspect who is in sight escapes, but the fact that the police arrive a little late or are a little slower afoot does not always justify the killing of the subject. A police officer may not seize an unarmed, non-dangerous suspect by shooting him dead."

USE OF FORCE

The Court went on to define under what circumstances deadly force could be employed:
"Where the officer has probable cause to believe the suspect poses a threat of
serious physical harm, either to the officer or others, it is not constitutionally
unreasonable to prevent escape by using deadly force. Thus, if a suspect
threatens the officer with a weapon, or if there is probable cause to believe that he
committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious
physical harm, deadly force may be used if necessary to prevent escape and if –
where feasible – some warning has been given."

In the case of Graham v. Connor, 409 U.S. 1, 105 S. Ct. 1649, 85 L.Ed.2d 443 (1989), the
U.S. Supreme Court heard a case with a less than lethal issue. The court reviewed the
standards of evaluating officer conduct according to those used in Tennessee v. Garner. The
court held that a central issue in physical force cases was whether the officer's actions are
objectively reasonable in light of the facts and circumstances at the time of the incident. This is
referred to as the Fourth Amendment "reasonableness" standard. The application of
reasonable force will require a careful case -specific review of the following factors:

1. The severity of the crime in question;
2. The apparent threat posed by the suspect;
3. Whether the suspect was trying to resist or flee; and
4. Judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer coping with a tense, fastevolving
situation.

The court further stated that an officer's "evil intentions will not make a Fourth Amendment
issue out of an objectively reasonable use of force; nor will an officer's good intentions
make an objectively unreasonable use of force constitutional."

USE OF FORCE

Tenn State Law
The laws of self defense and defense of a third person are crucial to the mission of the law
enforcement officer. Tactical officers as well as patrol officers should be well acquainted with
the statutes regarding use of force in their states. In most cases, the statutes will be divided into
three areas:
? Self-defense. (TCA 39-11-611)
? Defense of a third person. (TCA 39-11-612)
? Use of deadly force by a law enforcement officer. (TCA 39-11-620)
While many states will delve further into areas such as protection of property, prevention of
trespassing and use of force by civilians, the basic elements of the use of force for law
enforcement are covered by these three areas.
Liability
Criminal Liability: The law enforcement officer should be cognizant that his actions in any use
of force situation can bring about grave consequences and he should therefore be intimately
familiar with his department's use of force continuum, its policies and procedures, as well as
state and federal laws. In any use of force situation that results in death or serious bodily injury,
the law enforcement officer must face the fact that his actions will be scrutinized and if he has
acted improperly, he could face criminal prosecution in State and Federal court. Prosecution
and conviction can result in criminal penalties including jail time, fines and punitive damages.
Civil Liability: In addition to the possibility of criminal prosecution, officers can expect some
type of civil action to take place following any serious use of force incident. This could include a
Federal Civil Suit under Sec. 1983 which could result in civil penalties awarded to the plaintiff.
As with criminal prosecution, punitive damages may be awarded to the plaintiff. Punitive
damages are required to be paid by the defendant as a means of punishment. The important
thing to remember in dealing with a civil trial is that the burden of proof for civil action is less
than that of a criminal prosecution. A law enforcement officer may escape a conviction or even
charges in criminal court only to be sued by the plaintiff and a judgment awarded.
 
I may be wrong, but I think some states have laws giving you civil immunity if the shooting is justified. Idk what that could do for you in a federal court.

I'll have to find the exact statute but I believe Alabama has a law for it. I'm 99% sure I've read it before.
 
if you shoot someone even if they have a gun to your kids head you can be sued. When we had to take our ccw class that's what the instructor (county sheriff) told us was three groups of people would be on the way: law, paramedics, lawyers. There's insurance policies that are specifically for if you shoot someone. They cover the legal fees and have lawyers on standby that specialize in ccw shootings. I think they were like $100 a year.
 
Alabama State Law:

13A-3-23

(d) A person who uses force, including deadly physical force, as justified and permitted in this section is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the force was determined to be unlawful.
 
Dwill817 said:
Alabama State Law:

13A-3-23

(d) A person who uses force, including deadly physical force, as justified and permitted in this section is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the force was determined to be unlawful.

Tennessee sucks ha.
 
I read all of the Alabama firearms laws about every week.. I'm very passionate about all of this if you can't tell.. lol
 
Dwill817 said:
I read all of the Alabama firearms laws about every week.. I'm very passionate about all of this if you can't tell.. lol

I'm in the industry and can't keep them straight. Try sending a gun to California....
 
I live in Texas, I would have been justified and had the law on my side had I shot. I know this, and knew this.
That said, I probably would have ended up being arrested, and spent some time in jail, and spent money on attorney fees to get out.
Also, the media frenzy I'm sure that would have ensued.


Texal Penal Code Title 2, Chapter 9

Sec. 9.33. DEFENSE OF THIRD PERSON. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect a third person if:
(1) under the circumstances as the actor reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.31 or 9.32 in using force or deadly force to protect himself against the unlawful force or unlawful deadly force he reasonably believes to be threatening the third person he seeks to protect; and
(2) the actor reasonably believes that his intervention is immediately necessary to protect the third person.
 
jeeptj99 said:
Tennessee sucks ha.

Still will need a lawyer to defend. It sucks but it's true.....that's why we need Tort reform and (not to be political) term limits for congress!!!!!!!!
 
I use thunderwear. I've had people tell me it doesn't work, but its comfortable as ****. I literally forget its there daily. I'm only a month into carrying daily and within 3 days I never ever noticed it. I forget its there, which is good, I never check it. I'm a checker, meaning when I stand up I check wallet, phone (Lf pocket), money/keys (rf pocket) and then walk off. I never feel that I need to check my gun. It is deep under my belt. I will have a hard ass time getting to it in less than 2 seconds. I can run, bend, go to the gym and do anything but squats, work all day, whatever. No Problems. Comfort is more key than anything. Wyatt's IWB right love handle carry was hanging out nonstop. I have a couple other buddies that IWB and they are trying to cover it when they reach high, bend over and reach etc. Mine can't be seen, and its just wider than an LC9, its a sccy cpx2.
Appendix carry feels like its aimed at my artery and nuts/dickhead, deep appendix carry when Mine is feels like its in front of my ****, aimed between my legs, and doesn't hinder movement or bending.
I have a truck gun, but never drive my truck. I'm normally in my jeep and need to get a holster I like that is very discreet in it. More stuff to think about
 
eb4292fcb444ed5c63c4863911d4bbd5.jpg
My g23 in my newest holster I've been trying. I bought it for work because I'd be in deep **** if I got carrying there. I carry my g42 in it at work and nobody ever picked up on it the past month or so. I thought it was gonna be uncomfortable and annoying when I ordered it, but it had good reviews and I was wrong. I really don't mind it. Would be even less noticeable if I could lose my truck driving beer gut.

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