spool locker question ?

[CHOP SHOP]

The most common failure in a toy diff is the pinion crush sleeve which in turn causes pinion bearing failure.:redneck:

Please explain how letting the bearing get closer (not further apart creating play) will cause a failure.

Do you have a solid spacer inbetween your wheel bearing? why dont they fail?

 

[Fullywrecked]

Please explain how letting the bearing get closer (not further apart creating play) will cause a failure.

Do you have a solid spacer inbetween your wheel bearing? why dont they fail?

Your wheel bearings are double nut with a lock foldover nut, which keeps it from loosening. Why is it when you use a solid pinion spacer it seems to eliminate the pinion bearing failure? Have a nice day brad I don't have time to speculate on your thoughts I have stuff to do.:beer:

 

[CHOP SHOP]

Your wheel bearings are double nut with a lock foldover nut, which keeps it from loosening. Why is it when you use a solid pinion spacer it seems to eliminate the pinion bearing failure? Have a nice day brad I don't have time to speculate on your thoughts I have stuff to do.:beer:

You said it yourself. It has to loosen up to fail. how can a crushsleeve cause it to back off?:corn:

 

[MarcW]

You said it yourself. It has to loosen up to fail. how can a crushsleeve cause it to back off?:corn:

dude, you might be king of dirt butt cheap trucks that dont see the road. but some of our trucks make multi state trips, DRIVING, on the freeway, and i dont wanna worry about no stock bearings in my 35 year old rearend.

 

[CHOP SHOP]

dude, you might be king of dirt butt cheap trucks that dont see the road. but some of our trucks make multi state trips, DRIVING, on the freeway, and i dont wanna worry about no stock bearings in my 35 year old rearend.

I have no desire to drive a cheroke across the country.

To each his own. Wanna buy a bearing kit?:corn:

 

[MarcW]

I have no desire to drive a cheroke across the country.

To each his own. Wanna buy a bearing kit?:corn:

already got one :kiss:

 

[zukkev]

You said it yourself. It has to loosen up to fail. how can a crushsleeve cause it to back off?:corn:

To answer this, basically the crush sleeve is providing outward pressure between the bearings, and the pinion nut is forcing the bearings together...if the crush sleeve looses it's outward force for whatever reason, it allows the bearings' preload to increase, causing excess wear/heat on the pinion bearings, ultimately resulting in their failure...

 

[Rix]

usually the crush sleeve loostens/loses tension (crushes more or whtever), and the pinion starts slamming back and forth in the housing and on the front and rear pinion bearings on accel/decel.
In cool cases, the pinion hits the carrier, and makes a really big mess.

 

[CHOP SHOP]

To answer this, basically the crush sleeve is providing outward pressure between the bearings, and the pinion nut is forcing the bearings together...if the crush sleeve looses it's outward force for whatever reason, it allows the bearings' preload to increase, causing excess wear/heat on the pinion bearings, ultimately resulting in their failure...

Thank you kev for being the only feller to understand how things are stacked in there.

Everbody else thats set up geras on the net but not in a garage has to pipe up and say it will loosen up cuz it crushes, which is just not true.

You used an extremely good way to explain it, way better than I could figure out how to get through to these guys.

I have said it time and time again, if it crushes it can only get tighter.:beer:

 

[CHOP SHOP]

usually the crush sleeve loostens/loses tension (crushes more or whtever), and the pinion starts slamming back and forth in the housing and on the front and rear pinion bearings on accel/decel.
In cool cases, the pinion hits the carrier, and makes a really big mess.

Pleas refer to above two posts for lesson. Thank you.:beer:


The pinion can oly hit the carrier if the nut backs off or a race was not seated during settup. A crush sleeve crushing mare will pull it out of the pinion.

 

[zukkev]

Pleas refer to above two posts for lesson. Thank you.:beer:


The pinion can only hit the carrier if the nut backs off or a race was not seated during setup. A crush sleeve crushing more will pull it out of the pinion.

fixed!!!:fawkdancesmiley: EDIT; most of it anyway!! (if I fixed it all, no one would believe it's you!!!):haha::haha:
The 3rd way the pinion will hit the carrier is if the outer (small) pinion bearing wears out----again due to the above mentioned tightening of the preload due to a failed crush sleeve...

 

[Rix]

Pleas refer to above two posts for lesson. Thank you.:beer:


The pinion can oly hit the carrier if the nut backs off or a race was not seated during settup. A crush sleeve crushing mare will pull it out of the pinion.

Not when the bearings start coming apart.
I got my lessons, Brad. :fawkdancesmiley:

 

[CHOP SHOP]

Not when the bearings start coming apart.
I got my lessons, Brad. :fawkdancesmiley:

explain to me how the bearings would "come apart" ???

I crush sleeve is between the bearing it would have to grow for the bearings to come apart. The bearing would be alowed to get closer togeather if its crushed more.

What keeps a pinion from dropping out of the third when dissassembling a diff? :eeek: The nut and small pinion bearing. The small bearing holds it form going in, the big bearing holds it from going out.:awesomework:

 

[crash2]

explain to me how the bearings would "come apart" ???

I crush sleeve is between the bearing it would have to grow for the bearings to come apart. The bearing would be alowed to get closer togeather if its crushed more.

What keeps a pinion from dropping out of the third when dissassembling a diff? :eeek: The nut and small pinion bearing. The small bearing holds it form going in, the big bearing holds it from going out.:awesomework:

I have done many diffs at work where yes the bearings come apart. They start by the hardoned surface chiiping away--like what a gravel road does forming potholes--and progressively get worse to where the pinion will move..


Also the comment on the spun bearing on a carrier. I have and will never trust a bearing that has spun. If you can see scratch's or gawl marks on the inside of the bearing race--its junk plain and simple... Now somebody who is in there shop working on there own junk--run it, I could carfe less but when I am expected to put out top noth 100% work--well I will leave it at that.

 

[CHOP SHOP]

I have done many diffs at work where yes the bearings come apart. They start by the hardoned surface chiiping away--like what a gravel road does forming potholes--and progressively get worse to where the pinion will move..

But how is this the fault of the crush sleeve? Thats what I was getting at with rix.

Also the comment on the spun bearing on a carrier. I have and will never trust a bearing that has spun. If you can see scratch's or gawl marks on the inside of the bearing race--its junk plain and simple... Now somebody who is in there shop working on there own junk--run it, I could carfe less but when I am expected to put out top noth 100% work--well I will leave it at that.

By all means if it has spun and has galling marks or heat marks. But an old welded toyota diff that is gettin its second or third set of gears will have carrier bearings that will sometimes fall off if tipped or pulled by hand. Doesnt mean the bearing was spinning at all. Just that it has worked the surface down a little.

I will try to save oem toyota bearing when I can. Alot of the aftermarket replacement bearings are not as good of quality as OEM.

 

[zukkev]

I have done many diffs at work where yes the bearings come apart. They start by the hardoned surface chiiping away--like what a gravel road does forming potholes--and progressively get worse to where the pinion will move..


Also the comment on the spun bearing on a carrier. I have and will never trust a bearing that has spun. If you can see scratch's or gawl marks on the inside of the bearing race--its junk plain and simple... Now somebody who is in there shop working on there own junk--run it, I could carfe less but when I am expected to put out top noth 100% work--well I will leave it at that.

Yup...seen it too....most likely cause of this is breakdown of the lube, causing excess heat/wear of the bearing in question; or could have been incorrect preload from the getgo...who knows??? EDIT; to answer B-rad,the bad brng can cause the crush sleeve to beat itself smaller between the inner and outer bearings that are going bad due to the vibration from said failing brng...make sense???
I agree with the spun bearing...my old lockrite is likely just fine, as the spun brng on the carrier was causing the carrier to move around, letting it jump teeth...If, when I'm doing a diff for someone, and the bearings fall off the carrier, it'll get new bearings, and in some cases (such as my own) a carrier that will hold said new bearing from spinning:awesomework:...

 

[crash2]

But how is this the fault of the crush sleeve? Thats what I was getting at with rix.




By all means if it has spun and has galling marks or heat marks. But an old welded toyota diff that is gettin its second or third set of gears will have carrier bearings that will sometimes fall off if tipped or pulled by hand. Doesnt mean the bearing was spinning at all. Just that it has worked the surface down a little.

I will try to save oem toyota bearing when I can. Alot of the aftermarket replacement bearings are not as good of quality as OEM.

Sorry brad--I was refering to the pinion hitting the carrier.

I have yet to see a toy carrier that spun a side bearing that didn't have some soft of gawling on the inner surface of the bearing. Plus if the bearing is able to "fall" off more than likely the bearing surface on the carrier is no longer true either--and means there is also room for oil to enter behind the bearing--which in turn will allow the carrier to move on the bearing causing an untrue rotating carrier.

Now granted to can stake the carrier bearing suface and use green lockting to "maybe" lock the bearing to the carrier. I have had to do it before but in now way make a constant practice of it. Like I say everything I ship out the door is 100% and backed 100%.. I don't like to redo things that were not done right in the first place.

Plus when you are dealing with a job that if it fawks up due to something along those lines---you eat the job and that sucks..

Bottom line those are "my" standards and they have done me right in 20 years.

 

[Just Differentials]

Doesnt quite work like that. Althought the solid spacers are better, the crush sleeve wont just fail. It is between two bearings that are both set against steps, so it cant really collapse on its own. I have seen TONS of failed toyota diffs as a result of spun bearings. When the carrier bearings dont fit tight, they will spin under load, especially on the ring gear side. This loosens the carrier bearing preload. Under load the pinion will deflect the ring gear, the looser the carrier the more deflection and the more likely to snap teeth. More often than not when disssassembling a 3rd member with broken gears you will find loose preload on the carrier, either not set tight enough from the get go, or spun bearing. This is based off of actually doing and seeing thousands of them.

The most common failure in a toy diff is the pinion crush sleeve which in turn causes pinion bearing failure.:redneck:

 

[Just Differentials]

agreed

agreed

Sorry brad--I was refering to the pinion hitting the carrier.

I have yet to see a toy carrier that spun a side bearing that didn't have some soft of gawling on the inner surface of the bearing. Plus if the bearing is able to "fall" off more than likely the bearing surface on the carrier is no longer true either--and means there is also room for oil to enter behind the bearing--which in turn will allow the carrier to move on the bearing causing an untrue rotating carrier.

Now granted to can stake the carrier bearing suface and use green lockting to "maybe" lock the bearing to the carrier. I have had to do it before but in now way make a constant practice of it. Like I say everything I ship out the door is 100% and backed 100%.. I don't like to redo things that were not done right in the first place.

Plus when you are dealing with a job that if it fawks up due to something along those lines---you eat the job and that sucks..

Bottom line those are "my" standards and they have done me right in 20 years.