Trump for prez?

[RebelRider]

Government benefits shouldn't differentiate between a married and non married person (specifically related to child rearing). I know several couples that don't/won't get married because the woman is a "single mother that earns below the poverty level" in the eyes of the state, and therefore qualifies for a plethora of Gov. benefits. Honestly, I don't blame them either.

This is the exact attitude that's wrong with our society. No shame at all over taking money from your fellow man. I'm glad you don't blame them for their shitty decisions in life. Not to mention the kids get to grow up with parents that won't get married so they can get welfare. I bet they drive nice vehicles too. Awesome....

 

[TBItoy]

Re:

I figured that would draw a response.

I blame us. Everyone. the people/society/politicians that put these benefits in place and allow them to be exploited.

These people aren't doing anything illegal, wrong, yes IMO, illegal, no.

Basically it's allowing the mother to work part time, get food benefits and healthcare for the child. The father works full time (low level mechanic). They get by. Doesn't make it "right" though.


I don't approve of it, plus my wife wouldn't go for it lol.

But I also don't really see it as any different than the people that write off **** on their taxes that obviously isn't business related, do cash deals to avoid taxes, etc.

It's still exploitation of government policies/laws for the benefit of you.

 

[TacomaJD]

But I also don't really see it as any different than the people that write off **** on their taxes that obviously isn't business related, do cash deals to avoid taxes, etc.

It's still exploitation of government policies/laws for the benefit of you.

And fawkers drawing disability who are able to work....that one specifically burns my ass.

 

[RebelRider]

Two wrongs don't make a right. Producing children is not a right or necessary. Can't provide, don't have them.


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[TBItoy]

Re: Re: Trump for prez?

Two wrongs don't make a right. Producing children is not a right or necessary. Can't provide, don't have them.


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Agree. 100%.

It's a hard subject to discuss too, because as a society we don't want to let the kids starve because their parents make **** choices... But a lot of the parents continue to make **** choices. Throwing money at a shitty situation doesn't usually make it better.

 

[RebelRider]

Agree. 100%.

It's a hard subject to discuss too, because as a society we don't want to let the kids starve because their parents make **** choices... But a lot of the parents continue to make **** choices. Throwing money at a shitty situation doesn't usually make it better.

I agree. It just seems at some point, someone will have to be the bad guy. The snowball is growing daily.


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[TBItoy]

Re: Re: Trump for prez?

I agree. It just seems at some point, someone will have to be the bad guy. The snowball is growing daily.


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Bad thing is, the only way to prevent abuse of benefits is vetting/investigation of all applicants... Which leads to more bureaucracy and gov employees...

We could revert back to a time before big government programs when individuals had to band together and work as a community to survive the bad times. Shitty people were still shitty, they just didn't get paid for it.

 

[RebelRider]

I wish I had a good idea, but I don't. I guess that's why I get worked up over people being shameless about using welfare.
As bad as it sounds, if you were on welfare when I was a kid, you better not let anyone know. Kids that were would be hounded for it.


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[TBItoy]

Re: Re: Trump for prez?

I wish I had a good idea, but I don't. I guess that's why I get worked up over people being shameless about using welfare.
As bad as it sounds, if you were on welfare when I was a kid, you better not let anyone know. Kids that were would be hounded for it.


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My wife knows what that's like. Her mom (divorced) got cancer when her and her sister were young teenagers. Had to go get benefits for a while when her mom was on chemo and couldn't work. They weren't that well off before, but during that time things got real lean. My wife has a fairly acute fear of being poor again.

But hell, that's what those benefits are for, help you stay in your feet when shtf. Not a lifestyle.

 

[blacksheep10]

Re:

I figured that would draw a response.






But I also don't really see it as any different than the people that write off **** on their taxes that obviously isn't business related, do cash deals to avoid taxes, etc.

It's still exploitation of government policies/laws for the benefit of you.

You and I normally fall on the same side of most arguments from what I have seen, but if you think that a business spending money at the end of the year on something that could be construed as advertising or also a trip to go racing that may or may not get their name out or to pay 40% tax on that money is the same thing as taking A ****ing welfare check then you were and I are on very different sides of that argument

 

[TBItoy]

Re:

I was more so thinking of a concrete contractor writing off his daughter and ex wife's Land Rovers as business vehicles because they are 'trucks'...

Or the classic "hiding money off shore" ?

If you make the money within an economic system, be prepared to pay the tax that goes along with it, or spend the money in a way that benefits you and legally avoids taxes. Doesn't bother me in the least.

What about things like government subsidies for farmers ? Ranchers that use gov managed land?

Morality is subjective,

If someone can justify it in their conscience and find a legal way to exploit the law to there benefit, they will.

I'm not the dictator of what's right and wrong, that's up to the individual.


Legality and morality aren't necessarily parallels.

I guess it boils down to "contributing less than is due vs taking more than is owed"

So yeah, I'd say "taking" is worse than "withholding"...

We need less takers. Until the laws change, that's not likely.

 

[lowbudgetjunk]

As a small business owner, I "use every available" legal loophole to keep as much money as I can out of the .gov's hands. Who better to distribute the money I make, than me? I am currently responsible for 12 folks plus our families. All of us work to support a bunch of people that don't and a government that takes our fair share and squanders it all over the place, all the while racking up a huge debt that is against our good names. At some point, the debt will get bad enough that it will come crashing down and we will suffer because of it. When this happens, the non working class will begin to loot and steal to provide for their families. Once again, we will have to defend/protect what we have worked to get. All the while, praying we have stock piled up enough food and trade able goods to get through the tough times.

Anyone not using the system to keep as much of their money in their hands needs to go to their capital city and follow (@a distance, not in a creepy way) one or two of your representatives or senators around when they are in session.Things you will notice. Nice suits, great meals that they don't pay for, nights in an expensive hotel, lots of schmoozing with every large/big business that is asking or demanding larger "special loopholes" so that they can keep more of their money.

 

[86chevota]

Re:

I figured that would draw a response.

I blame us. Everyone. the people/society/politicians that put these benefits in place and allow them to be exploited.

These people aren't doing anything illegal, wrong, yes IMO, illegal, no.

Basically it's allowing the mother to work part time, get food benefits and healthcare for the child. The father works full time (low level mechanic). They get by. Doesn't make it "right" though.


I don't approve of it, plus my wife wouldn't go for it lol.

But I also don't really see it as any different than the people that write off **** on their taxes that obviously isn't business related, do cash deals to avoid taxes, etc.

It's still exploitation of government policies/laws for the benefit of you.

I have to disagree with you. Are you self-employed ? I don't mind paying my fair share of taxes but paying more so others than can work but won't **** that. It keeps getting harder and harder on a small business but easier for the ones that won't work. I could write a book but if your not self funded you wouldn't understand or give a ****.

 

[86chevota]

As a small business owner, I "use every available" legal loophole to keep as much money as I can out of the .gov's hands. Who better to distribute the money I make, than me? I am currently responsible for 12 folks plus our families. All of us work to support a bunch of people that don't and a government that takes our fair share and squanders it all over the place, all the while racking up a huge debt that is against our good names. At some point, the debt will get bad enough that it will come crashing down and we will suffer because of it. When this happens, the non working class will begin to loot and steal to provide for their families. Once again, we will have to defend/protect what we have worked to get. All the while, praying we have stock piled up enough food and trade able goods to get through the tough times.

Anyone not using the system to keep as much of their money in their hands needs to go to their capital city and follow (@a distance, not in a creepy way) one or two of your representatives or senators around when they are in session.Things you will notice. Nice suits, great meals that they don't pay for, nights in an expensive hotel, lots of schmoozing with every large/big business that is asking or demanding larger "special loopholes" so that they can keep more of their money.

This man gets it

 

[Neal3000]

I would save over 7k on trumps tax plan.....no change on the rest

Kel, thats actually his old plan, he changed it a coupl of days ago because the original was projected to cost the Gov $10 trillion

http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/15/pf/taxes/trump-tax-plan/

 

[TBItoy]

Apparently I'm not able to convey my point in a manner that you guy understand.

I thought the reply AFTER the one that 86chevota quoted explained it a little better.



let me summarize again:

Taking money BAD

Hiding money BAD

System of taking and distributing money BAD





Using "every legal loophole" to keep as much of your money as you can is FINE. And how it's SUPPOSED to be. That's what tax laws are for.

Most people refuse to acknowledge that a portion of the money you make, ISN'T YOURS.

Yes, it is BULLSHIT that we've allowed our Government to TAKE as much of OUR money as it does, the redistribute it in manners we don't agree with.




Just so I'm still on the same page as everyone, all this stemmed from the "Honestly, I don't blame them" comment ?
Which in my next post, I dissected a bit and came to the conclusion that I was wrong and that "taking" was the greater evil...

 

[Elliott]

I understand what you are saying, BUT every dime you make is yours and yours alone if YOU made it, but with that comes a shared responsibility, that will take some deep thinking to understand completely.The big question is how to take care of the truly disabled, old and sick, and get rid of the leaches.

 

[ROKTOY829]

Re:

Watch 13 hours, if you really want to be pissed off.

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[Beerj]

I understand what you are saying, BUT every dime you make is yours and yours alone if YOU made it

That being said, we're all obligated to pitch in some of the money we earn to do things like drive on paved roads, have a legal system and people to enforce it, take buses and call the fire department when needed. Taxes are needed because if left up to everyone to chip in on their own, well, I'm sure plenty wouldn't feel like it.

 

[Elliott]

I agree that's what I meant about shared responsibility.