Zuk Buggy 2.0

dwa2469 · May 3, 2017

^^^ I was just going to ask the same question :****:

sleepsontoilet · May 3, 2017

rockwild said:
the portals are 2 gear right? so the third members are flipped?

dwa2469 said:
^^^ I was just going to ask the same question :****:

Correct, they "technically" spin backwards. I'm running a LP 3rd flipped making it HP.

dwa2469 · May 3, 2017

Can you give us an estimate of cost of parts to build an axle like this?

sleepsontoilet · May 3, 2017

dwa2469 said:
Can you give us an estimate of cost of parts to build an axle like this?

This is what Jesse posted on Facebook per axle pricing. I paid $1125 for the built 3rd member in each axle. I would say around $6200ish plus steering for each axle.

Portal Pricing -
*Priced in Pairs*

Steer Axles
Modified boxes - $1000
C's - $550
Brakes - $850
Steering Arms - $350
CV's - $750
Inner axles - $900

$4400

Non-steer Axles
Modified boxes - $1000
Adapter flanges - $350
Brakes - $850
Inner axles - $900

$3100

dwa2469 · May 3, 2017

Thanks Ronald!!

simpletoy · May 3, 2017

Did you buy the thirds used? Or where did you go for those?

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sleepsontoilet · May 3, 2017

simpletoy said:
Did you buy the thirds used? Or where did you go for those?

A friend thinkers on the side with gears, and has always given me good pricing through his account.

simpletoy · May 4, 2017

sleepsontoilet said:
A friend thinkers on the side with gears, and has always given me good pricing through his account.

I see I see. Did you upgrade to the 35 spline pinion? Think it's a good upgrade to do?

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sleepsontoilet · May 4, 2017

simpletoy said:
I see I see. Did you upgrade to the 35 spline pinion? Think it's a good upgrade to do?

With portals I think it's a waste of money. Steve Johns has the same drivetrain and 8" Toyota 3rds with no issues on 42s. I could've saved money there, but figured if I ever "had" to sell it quick 9s would give it more resale value.

sleepsontoilet · May 12, 2017

Front links are in, and the seats are mounted.

paradisepwoffrd · May 13, 2017

Re: Re: Zuk Buggy 2.0

sleepsontoilet said:
Front links are in, and the seats are mounted.

You not running straight uppers? Saw a post by Jesse talking about how to get the roll center down with portals. I know he's building a cone dodger though.

sleepsontoilet · May 13, 2017

Re: Re: Zuk Buggy 2.0

paradisepwoffrd said:
You not running straight uppers? Saw a post by Jesse talking about how to get the roll center down with portals. I know he's building a cone dodger though.

That's a rear engine buggy, so he can't get the upper triangulation he wants with the motor in the way. He was talking about how he doesn't like triangulation lowers on a 2 seater but was fine with them on a 1 seater. He hasn't linked the front yet that I know of, but most of his rigs are 3 linked in the front. Also, I couldn't get the lowers with enough triangulation to run straight uppers. My motor is way low and back for cog, and I'd have to raise it or run no engine skid. I have around 1-2* of pinion change from bump to droop, and the lowers rise about 1-2* at ride height. I did my last Zuk like this, and it was stupid stable. This will kill cones as well, just be able to take the family along when the comps aren't close enough to make.

fl-krawler · May 13, 2017

Re: Re: Zuk Buggy 2.0

paradisepwoffrd said:
You not running straight uppers? Saw a post by Jesse talking about how to get the roll center down with portals. I know he's building a cone dodger though.

The higher the roll center the more stable a rig is. The cone dodgers mostly run 3link with a panhard, and the high roll center heights would cause them to lift tires in extreme forced articulation scenarios (cone dodging). Has really nothing to do with portals, and just more so with correct geometry in general

sleepsontoilet · May 14, 2017

Ran out of tube today, and killed my Dewalt grinder.

paradisepwoffrd · May 14, 2017

Re: Re: Re: Zuk Buggy 2.0

fl-krawler said:
The higher the roll center the more stable a rig is. The cone dodgers mostly run 3link with a panhard, and the high roll center heights would cause them to lift tires in extreme forced articulation scenarios (cone dodging). Has really nothing to do with portals, and just more so with correct geometry in general

I understand all that.

It does have a little to do with portals though. Since the axle tube is now above the axle/wheel centerline building links and brackets have to be reconsidered. If you built the links the exact same as a std straight axle, it will perform completely different.

Jessie was talking about them not building as high of roll center anymore, and how he was going about it using a 4 link with strait uppers vs the 3link of old.

sleepsontoilet · May 14, 2017

Re: Re: Re: Zuk Buggy 2.0

paradisepwoffrd said:
I understand all that.

It does have a little to do with portals though. Since the axle tube is now above the axle/wheel centerline building links and brackets have to be reconsidered. If you built the links the exact same as a std straight axle, it will perform completely different.

Jessie was talking about them not building as high of roll center anymore, and how he was going about it using a 4 link with strait uppers vs the 3link of old.

Everything I've read in his post talks about not liking straight uppers, as it affects the roll center making it too low. He said it's not as big of a deal in the front, but the rear he doesn't like them. The only reason he's running straight uppers is the engine is in the way. He also mounts the shocks really low on the C vs a nonportal axle, which helps with stability.

sleepsontoilet · May 16, 2017

fl-krawler said:
Would you mind getting me a measurement when you get the boxes on the C's. I just need a measurements from the inside edge of the box to the round portion of the "C" where you would normally weld it to the tube, and how much tube extends inside that part. I just scored some boxes super cheap, but I am waiting on Jesse for 2 sets of inner C's and I would like to go ahead and start building my link mounts

Hope this helps

fl-krawler · May 16, 2017

sleepsontoilet said:
Hope this helps

Quite a bit. Thanks! :smoke:

sleepsontoilet · May 17, 2017

Cut up the headers to add V bands, tuck them tighter and keep the heat off my legs.

Finally welded the Cs on, and gonna start trimming the Goatbuilt hydro ram mount.

Picked up some used shocks, and UPS was kind enough to brake another Schrader valve.

paradisepwoffrd · May 17, 2017

Re: Re: Re: Re: Zuk Buggy 2.0

sleepsontoilet said:
Everything I've read in his post talks about not liking straight uppers, as it affects the roll center making it too low. He said it's not as big of a deal in the front, but the rear he doesn't like them. The only reason he's running straight uppers is the engine is in the way. He also mounts the shocks really low on the C vs a nonportal axle, which helps with stability.

I cant argue as i don't know much about correct geometry for cone dodging but i saw this post:

[quote author=jesse]
Interesting tech here; you probably noticed that the rear suspension is not what you'd typically see in a moon buggy. Around 2003-2004, there was a trend of building 3-links with high roll centers (tall track bar mounts). Many of those cars had some geometry issues that caused them to lift a rear tire when side loaded. Everyone made the assumption that this was a characteristic attributed to the 3-link style suspension.

When I built Prickle, I built it with a 4-link rear, but the roll center is still very high (32"). That wasn't necessarily intentional, but with portals and 42's it's actually difficult to get the roll center much lower. I definitely had concerns that the high roll center would still cause the same issues that 3-linked cars with high roll centers had. At the first comp I went to I was already noticing some geometry issues. Obviously I've managed to work with it, but it's very inconvenient at times.

When I designed Cody's car, the goal was to drop the roll center as much as possible. That's why this car has uppers with very little triangulation. I was able to drop the roll center to 29", which I think is close to ideal for this car. [/quote]

Car is coming along nice. I would love to build a portal rig one day.