100 miles of trail @ Walker Valley

[Money Mark]

.....there is ~30 miles at Walker.

Scratch that......31.5 miles now.:;

 

[japerry]

Jacob in all honesty nobody wants to build all of the trails to where the less built rigs would have no trails. You know as well as I do that whenever new "trails" are built 99% if not all would be stocker trails. If this were to happen then it really gets us nowhere because the advanced guys are still going to go and "find" stuff to play on.......It's important that in the trail plan we include advanced trails as well as easier trails and that the powers that be understand what we mean by "advanced". We just went through this at Reiter showing the DNR big wigs what an advanced trail is and now I think they have a much better understanding. If the same DNR people are involved at Walker then we don't need to do it again but if new people are involved then they also need to understand what we are after.:cheer:

I don't think we're in disagreement here. I have noticed with Walker that the people on the ground and the organized 4x4 community didn't really know or fight to get something harder.

Again, bringing the example of humps and bumps.. it was a 2wd logging road. Its now a 2wd (actually 1wd) mogul logging road. Thats not complex, its just annoying. I usually go the other way because its faster to get the skills area. And this was built with the consultation of the 4wd community!

And the skills area... it has one difficult part, but it was insisted we have easy trail included there... THAT NO ONE USES.

We need to do what the motorcycles do... plan a trail, build the trail, then bring it up as an idea to DNR to incorporate. Fund raise for the trail so we can get through the permitting process. Do you think expressway would ever been allowed to exist if DNR planned it? No way.

There is a new clear-cut coming to destroy lower mainline. Jim has already suggested making the upcoming spur road another 'humps and bumps'. We need to oppose this and suggest alternatives.. otherwise lower mainline will turn into another 2wd 'excursion'. Add this to the EZ-connector trail and you can see how much we've lost, even with the addition of the v-crack.

 

[japerry]

Scratch that......31.5 miles now.:;

scratch that. 32.8 miles now :; :fawkdancesmiley:

 

[zukkev]

I don't think we're in disagreement here. I have noticed with Walker that the people on the ground and the organized 4x4 community didn't really know or fight to get something harder.

Again, bringing the example of humps and bumps.. it was a 2wd logging road. Its now a 2wd (actually 1wd) mogul logging road. Thats not complex, its just annoying. I usually go the other way because its faster to get the skills area. And this was built with the consultation of the 4wd community!

.

What you are not including in your example of Humps and Bumps was that originally it was twice as hard initially, and was shot down/revamped ...We, the 4x4 community existed of one small group/club of people (NOT the entire 4x4 community---seems no one else wants to participate until it's already done, then all they do is bitch....), and an exavator runner, that had two lines running up, one was moderate, and the other would have been a LOT more fun for the more advanced...by design, Jim didn't want to stick his neck out, as WE made these obstacles if you will...granted using natural material...

 

[Binder]

Sweet! Gained almost 3 miles of trail in less than a half hour......on a Wednesday afternoon......
Keep up the good work guys.:awesomework:

 

[Binder]

What you are not including in your example of Humps and Bumps was that originally it was twice as hard initially, and was shot down/revamped ...We, the 4x4 community existed of one small group/club of people (NOT the entire 4x4 community---seems no one else wants to participate until it's already done, then all they do is bitch....), and an exavator runner, that had two lines running up, one was moderate, and the other would have been a LOT more fun for the more advanced...by design, Jim didn't want to stick his neck out, as WE made these obstacles if you will...granted using natural material...

Good points.:awesomework: I know it's been discussed before but maybe it's time we (4x4 community) start selectively saying no at times.

 

[japerry]

What you are not including in your example of Humps and Bumps was that originally it was twice as hard initially, and was shot down/revamped ...We, the 4x4 community existed of one small group/club of people (NOT the entire 4x4 community---seems no one else wants to participate until it's already done, then all they do is bitch....), and an exavator runner, that had two lines running up, one was moderate, and the other would have been a LOT more fun for the more advanced...by design, Jim didn't want to stick his neck out, as WE made these obstacles if you will...granted using natural material...

And as we talked on the phone, we need to stand up and say 'no' thats not acceptable to shoot it down. I was there as well, heard the run around, and when I bitched about it, on the field, I had 4x4 users saying that it is what its, at least we get something.

Time to change that mentality. Its time we fight it and say 'no'.

To that end, its easier to do something ourselves and get slapped (or even fined) than it is to sit back and get no trail.

 

[stealthrunner1]

And as we talked on the phone, we need to stand up and say 'no' thats not acceptable to shoot it down. I was there as well, heard the run around, and when I bitched about it, on the field, I had 4x4 users saying that it is what its, at least we get something.

Time to change that mentality. Its time we fight it and say 'no'.

To that end, its easier to do something ourselves and get slapped (or even fined) than it is to sit back and get no trail.

:awesomework::awesomework::clappy::clappy::corn::;

 

[War-Jeeper]

Sweet! Gained almost 3 miles of trail in less than a half hour......on a Wednesday afternoon......
Keep up the good work guys.:awesomework:

Hell yes!:cheer:

And as we talked on the phone, we need to stand up and say 'no' thats not acceptable to shoot it down. I was there as well, heard the run around, and when I bitched about it, on the field, I had 4x4 users saying that it is what its, at least we get something.

Time to change that mentality. Its time we fight it and say 'no'.

To that end, its easier to do something ourselves and get slapped (or even fined) than it is to sit back and get no trail.

I will be there with ya next time Jakob to put the foot down:awesomework:

P.S. sorry about today couldnt get the rig done to head up and help ya out, thinking of next week though i will give you a call this weekend when i know the details:awesomework:

 

[crash2]

And as we talked on the phone, we need to stand up and say 'no' thats not acceptable to shoot it down. I was there as well, heard the run around, and when I bitched about it, on the field, I had 4x4 users saying that it is what its, at least we get something.

Time to change that mentality. Its time we fight it and say 'no'.

To that end, its easier to do something ourselves and get slapped (or even fined) than it is to sit back and get no trail.

Only issue with that. They can easily say fine and just use there own crews (dnr) and do thiongs there own way with zero user interaction.

 

[zukkev]

Good points.:awesomework: I know it's been discussed before but maybe it's time we (4x4 community) start selectively saying no at times.

Need to get more than just one club out in the trenches when these work parties are going on, but yeah---bottom line is more people involved will help greatly to pursway a decision... Crash, you have a point----to a point; right now they (DNR) doesn't have the money to do it themselves their own way ...but I suppose it's still possible---doubtful, but possible.

 

[War-Jeeper]

Need to get more than just one club out in the trenches when these work parties are going on, but yeah---bottom line is more people involved will help greatly to pursway a decision... Crash, you have a point----to a point; right now they (DNR) doesn't have the money to do it themselves their own way ...but I suppose it's still possible---doubtful, but possible.

But why would they foot the bill if they have people volunteering themselves and there own time to pioneer new trails:awesomework:

 

[crash2]

Need to get more than just one club out in the trenches when these work parties are going on, but yeah---bottom line is more people involved will help greatly to pursway a decision... Crash, you have a point----to a point; right now they (DNR) doesn't have the money to do it themselves their own way ...but I suppose it's still possible---doubtful, but possible.

But why would they foot the bill if they have people volunteering themselves and there own time to pioneer new trails:awesomework:

Good points and yes the DNR relies allot on volunteer work--but by that I mean you are there to work and not argu what you are doing. That stuff needs to be addressed even before "any" work is done.

Just sayin....

 

[Money Mark]

.....bottom line is more people involved will help greatly to pursway a decision.....

Um...Kevin. It's happening right now.:;




Are you embracing it or dismissing it?

 

[crash2]

Um...Kevin. It's happening right now.:;




Are you embracing it or dismissing it?

Proof besides your keyboard?

 

[Money Mark]

Proof besides your keyboard?

Come on.....

 

[War-Jeeper]

Good points and yes the DNR relies allot on volunteer work--but by that I mean you are there to work and not argu what you are doing. That stuff needs to be addressed even before "any" work is done.

Just sayin....

We arent arguing necessarily, we are standing up for what we want our trails to be like, if the users stand up and make noise DNR will listen:awesomework:

 

[crash2]

We arent arguing necessarily, we are standing up for what we want our trails to be like, if the users stand up and make noise DNR will listen:awesomework:

But things need to be done in a proper manner and standing up at a work party and addressing that is not the apropriet time. These things need to be worked out beforehand--thats my point sam.

Now granted I understand things change at work parties and the DNR is not always the best with this. If anything work needs to be stopped and then hashed out before the next work party.

 

[The_Shocker]

Hopefully a Forest Watch volunteer doesn't see you guys. You do realize that DNR Forest Watch isn't only a Reiter thing right? DNR has been getting pressure to write tickets so maybe you will be made the example for others. :awesomework:

 

[War-Jeeper]

But things need to be done in a proper manner and standing up at a work party and addressing that is not the apropriet time. These things need to be worked out beforehand--thats my point sam.

Now granted I understand things change at work parties and the DNR is not always the best with this. If anything work needs to be stopped and then hashed out before the next work party.

As with humps and bumps my understanding was the plan changed the day of the work being done to where it wasnt anything like us as a user group had planned out with DNR, i could be wrong but thats what i got from talking to a couple people on the matter. In that situation it would be appropriate to stand up and say something:awesomework: