Boonie Buster
Stuck on a Curb
The photos in the original post would be really cool/good evidence in a study for forest rehabilitation and the affects of doing nothing... Could save the DNR, Forest Service, Etc. some money. :corn:
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Help Support Hardline Crawlers :
Current pics, Old trails - Reiter
- Thread starter YotaDude1997
- Start date
stealthrunner1
Well-Known Member
I agree!!!!!So this means that we need to fight to get more of reiter back from the Tree hugging Hikers cause they have way TOO much area to hike in and our (wheeling areas) are going by the way side!!!!:awesomework::beer:
WE as wheelers need to get organized like the Fawkin tree huggers are!!!!!!:stirpot::stirpot::corn:
crash2
-Oh no I picked a side-
No--we need folks to focus and help us with what we have. There are so few of us out there trying our best to get something done and we have proved we can do it--we need more help plain and simple.
People talk about more and more and don't get off there fawkin ass's to do anything about it--why we loose time and time again....
People talk about more and more and don't get off there fawkin ass's to do anything about it--why we loose time and time again....
stealthrunner1
Well-Known Member
Good point My Friend!!! But we need to get organized and take what is ours!!!!!Be it a VERY small piece of what we wish we could wheel!!!!I think that the WHOLE Pacific Trail should be available to all People of Washington/Oregon/ComiFornia!!!!! as long as we as wheelers would be reasonable about staying on the designated trail!!!! Wouldn't it be FUN to drive from Canada to Mexico and have fun camping and wheeling!!!!!!!!!:awesomework::awesomework::awesomework: Why are we as wheelers so Fawking complacent!!!!And are not willing to Put up Money/Effort As much as the tree huggers????To Make sure our sport is considered????:wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf: If you love wheeling!!!!!Grab your Sack and fight back!!!!!:wtf:
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stealthrunner1
Well-Known Member
focus on what we HAVE????Why not push for what we as citizens And tax payers have THE rights to!!!!!!:wtf: We pay for all the stupid forest service passes and the discovery passes because we have to!!!! My opinion is that !!!!If a Bike rider is using the roads as we are to get to our jobs on a daily basis!!! They should pay for Plates on there Bike Vehicle as we do!!!!
IF you use the ROAD to Get To any where or for work/recreation! ..you NEED to share the load!!!
and PAY a TAX like we as People that work for a living do!!!!!:eeek:
Binder
Well-Known Member
My opinion is that !!!!If a Bike rider is using the roads as we are to get to our jobs on a daily basis!!! They should pay for Plates on there Bike Vehicle as we do!!!!
IF you use the ROAD to Get To any where or for work/recreation! ..you NEED to share the load!!!
and PAY a TAX like we as People that work for a living do!!!!!:eeek:
And this proves your point. Bike riders are a very well organized and well backed group. Many of the things we have is because we fought for them and won!.. Though not paying taxes isn't one of those things.
Wheelers will never win anything of any importance because wheelers are a small and divided group. Easy pickings for the greenies who don't like us.
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crash2
-Oh no I picked a side-
Problem is only 5% are fighting back..
focus on what we HAVE????Why not push for what we as citizens And tax payers have THE rights to!!!!!!:wtf: We pay for all the stupid forest service passes and the discovery passes because we have to!!!! My opinion is that !!!!If a Bike rider is using the roads as we are to get to our jobs on a daily basis!!! They should pay for Plates on there Bike Vehicle as we do!!!!
IF you use the ROAD to Get To any where or for work/recreation! ..you NEED to share the load!!!
and PAY a TAX like we as People that work for a living do!!!!!:eeek:
And you proved my point "Organization"
Boonie Buster
Stuck on a Curb
My opinion, is we are spread too thin, with too many smaller organizations. Think of the organizations you hear about with cycling and hiking, not that I agree with the goals behind some of them, but:
-Cascade Bicycle Club: Geared more towards road cycling and large group rides, they are a driving force in the community for safer roads for the cyclists, creating safer lanes and even commenting on a recent ride this year where a lot of cyclists were acting like assholes on the roads and telling their fellow cyclists to "knock it off" and represent our cycling community in a better light.
-Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance: This group has done AMAZING work locally to get/keep biking places open, to ALL TYPES of riders, Duthie Hills is a GREAT example of riders of ALL TYPES coming together to WORK AS ONE towards a common goal. I suggest those of you that haven't, go take a hike, look at some pics of Duthie Hills for this reason. You have a kids beginner area, some beginner adult trails and training areas, all the way up to extreme drops and jumps and VERY technical cross country trails.
EDIT: To add to this, not all of us can, "Get up off our ****ing asses" and do work every weekend. I think if there was a common and larger group with a way to donate to a clear and defined cause, you could get a greater following. People are lazy plain and simple (myself included). And some would rather donate than do work, whether it's because of physical or time limitations.
-Cascade Bicycle Club: Geared more towards road cycling and large group rides, they are a driving force in the community for safer roads for the cyclists, creating safer lanes and even commenting on a recent ride this year where a lot of cyclists were acting like assholes on the roads and telling their fellow cyclists to "knock it off" and represent our cycling community in a better light.
-Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance: This group has done AMAZING work locally to get/keep biking places open, to ALL TYPES of riders, Duthie Hills is a GREAT example of riders of ALL TYPES coming together to WORK AS ONE towards a common goal. I suggest those of you that haven't, go take a hike, look at some pics of Duthie Hills for this reason. You have a kids beginner area, some beginner adult trails and training areas, all the way up to extreme drops and jumps and VERY technical cross country trails.
EDIT: To add to this, not all of us can, "Get up off our ****ing asses" and do work every weekend. I think if there was a common and larger group with a way to donate to a clear and defined cause, you could get a greater following. People are lazy plain and simple (myself included). And some would rather donate than do work, whether it's because of physical or time limitations.
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crash2
-Oh no I picked a side-
Nobody is asking folks to do something every weekend--but when help is asked for again there is always a "VERY small" percentage who step up to the plate.
But you proved my point... :awesomework:
Edit:--so since you know so much about the bike groups--how many folks get involved on a common basis to achieve there goals?
Toy4runner
Well-Known Member
Or even location problems. I would like to go to a Reiter focus group meeting, but they're on a weekday and are 2-3 hours out of town and start the minute I get off work. As for work parties, people from all over should be attending those, I plan to this next year as more trails are built.
Boonie Buster
Stuck on a Curb
crash2
-Oh no I picked a side-
But like you stated--you can't organize lazy people... :awesomework:
ah, come on! That's funny stuff
Binder
Well-Known Member
Honestly very few are hands on. There are just so many people involved all they have to do is join a club like Cascade for like $30I a year and hire big buck lobyists. Cascade has a full time staff of like 20 sum odd people.
crash2
-Oh no I picked a side-
There is where $$$ can overpower actual manpower for sure...
Boonie Buster
Stuck on a Curb
Since they are a large organized group of ALL TYPES. I would say probably the same percentage of them get involved, which is a very low number, but as Binder said, they have a larger following. Figure how many people we have on NWWers, registered users, then subract those that are regularly on the forum, then those that are close enough to support reiter (since this is the topic) So just looking at who as visited the forum today, 170 users. and say 10% are actively participating in work parties at reiter. That is 17 people, on a good day, provided no one is sick. Now, take Evergreen MTB, still relatively small, they have 2000 registered users. with a membership fee and newsletters, two things we don't have that aren't sent out. and out of those register i'm sure some are lazy people, like me, who pay my dues and go enjoy others hard work. now granted 10% of 2000, doesnt mean 200 people show up to the work parties every week. But they get the word out, have weekly rides and work parties, and have organization, but say those 200 people are spread out to work over the month on separate tasks and say each one goes to one task one time for the month that's still 50 people a week working on various things around the region, not saying they're all at one location or even show up. But they're there.
I would gladly pay for YET ANOTHER membership to an ORGANIZED ORGANIZATION for ALL TYPES of offroaders, where that fee went to support you (Crash) and all the others who do put in the hard work for others to enjoy. That fee would help with legal fees, gas to and from the work parties, shovels, saw, PPE, whatever it took to get your (Crash) work done in the woods. :awesomework:
I hear that reiter is open on the weekends, GREAT NEWS! I would love to check it out. Where do I go to find out what days and time? I need to be spoon fed this information. Maybe if there was a Sticky with all this condensed information in one spot in an easy to read format somewhere.
This above, is what I hear from a lot of people.
mark
Well-Known Member
Boonie may be on to something. Its something we all know, and acknowledge at different levels.
There's is no central, ORGANIZED 4wd organization that people WANT to donate to that will do good.
Someone is going to say " there the PNW". The PNW could have been it, but they are not. They have burned to many bridges over the years and for many is a bad word or a joke in their eyes. There membership is down, the older members are retiring off and the newer crowd has no interest in the club. They also have too many irons in the fire with too much diversity. Don't get me wrong, there are good folks there that do a lot of good (and put in allot of hard work) but its a mostly volunteer organization that is getting old and stale (and bogged down with politics).
The group that is needed would be run like a Business, not a "club", have clear goals and paid staff. Be able to organize, support and most important, lobby. Something like a "Washington ORV Coalition" or something like that. One would have to figure out if it would be ALL motorized ORV (bikes, SxS, Snowmobiles etc) or focus on just 4x4's. Bigger pool to pull from if its all inclusive, but more chance of fracturing with "agendas" and "preferences" as well. It also has to be trusted and fair for all.
It would be hard, and take a while to gain the momentum it would need. It would also need some fair, even and level headed core staff that know the sport, but also know the politics, they probably also should be "young" or alteast "younger" to better relate to the younger crowd that will be the driving future. And those are hard to find. The crux of the problem lies with that fact that by its nature, the 4x4 crowd is fractured and isolationist, buggies vs non buggies, trail riding vs hardcore, weekend campers vs day runners, drivers vs trailers. On top of that most are blue-collar people, which means that wheeling is a hobby that they squeeze in among other hobbies and LIFE, and there is not always allot of time for other things. 4x4s are also probably one of the more expensive hobbies, which means if your not wheeling it, your fixing or improving it, or working your ass off to have $$ to fix or wheel it. This makes things like "clubs", "groups" or "work parties" less appealing after busting your ass all week.
Some people make it work, some people break the mold, but a vast majority probably fall in the above lines some way or another. I know I"m so busy with other stuff, life and family that wheeling has become a VERY low priority and time is non existent. However if there was and established organization (specifically work Washington Trails since this is our area) that I knew $$ donation would go to good use (and not infighting), then that would be an easy choice so I would have somewhere to go when I DID have time to do something.
There's is no central, ORGANIZED 4wd organization that people WANT to donate to that will do good.
Someone is going to say " there the PNW". The PNW could have been it, but they are not. They have burned to many bridges over the years and for many is a bad word or a joke in their eyes. There membership is down, the older members are retiring off and the newer crowd has no interest in the club. They also have too many irons in the fire with too much diversity. Don't get me wrong, there are good folks there that do a lot of good (and put in allot of hard work) but its a mostly volunteer organization that is getting old and stale (and bogged down with politics).
The group that is needed would be run like a Business, not a "club", have clear goals and paid staff. Be able to organize, support and most important, lobby. Something like a "Washington ORV Coalition" or something like that. One would have to figure out if it would be ALL motorized ORV (bikes, SxS, Snowmobiles etc) or focus on just 4x4's. Bigger pool to pull from if its all inclusive, but more chance of fracturing with "agendas" and "preferences" as well. It also has to be trusted and fair for all.
It would be hard, and take a while to gain the momentum it would need. It would also need some fair, even and level headed core staff that know the sport, but also know the politics, they probably also should be "young" or alteast "younger" to better relate to the younger crowd that will be the driving future. And those are hard to find. The crux of the problem lies with that fact that by its nature, the 4x4 crowd is fractured and isolationist, buggies vs non buggies, trail riding vs hardcore, weekend campers vs day runners, drivers vs trailers. On top of that most are blue-collar people, which means that wheeling is a hobby that they squeeze in among other hobbies and LIFE, and there is not always allot of time for other things. 4x4s are also probably one of the more expensive hobbies, which means if your not wheeling it, your fixing or improving it, or working your ass off to have $$ to fix or wheel it. This makes things like "clubs", "groups" or "work parties" less appealing after busting your ass all week.
Some people make it work, some people break the mold, but a vast majority probably fall in the above lines some way or another. I know I"m so busy with other stuff, life and family that wheeling has become a VERY low priority and time is non existent. However if there was and established organization (specifically work Washington Trails since this is our area) that I knew $$ donation would go to good use (and not infighting), then that would be an easy choice so I would have somewhere to go when I DID have time to do something.
Mark I believe you were a member but have you ever really dove into what the pnw4wda is and what we really do ? Do you realize that we are our only voice in oly. Do you realize that we are your only voice for nova funding for our sport ? While a may agree with a few of your observations most of what you state is just more hyperbole from people that really don't know what all we do. We are spread thin and that's exactly why we have so many places to wheel in Washington state. We are here to stay and us old farts are here to teach the young ones how to get things done. Problem is all the younger ones (for the most part) want to do is bitch and whine on the internet and really just find excuses to not step up and support the one large org. with clout that we have.
BTW the next region 2 meeting is tomorrow night at the 4 wheel parts store in Tacoma. 7:30
I invite all naysayers to sit in and learn a little about what we are doing.
Binder
Well-Known Member
And unfortunately there aren't enough wheelers to have this same approach even if we had 100% participation. Just for comparison since Cascade bicycle club was brought up here are some of their numbers.
More than 15,000 members.
12 member volunteer board of directors.
32 professional staff.
114 new members just for the month of October which was a slow month.....
IMHO wheelers don't have a real chance unless we could get many more people involved or some real rich people involved. It's not just a matter of people not getting hands on. We could equip every wheeler in Washington with a shovel and send them to Reiter on Saturday and all you would have is a bunch of people with shovels not going anywhere fast.
crash2
-Oh no I picked a side-
More I think about the more I gotta say many of our troubles start at the top---Olympia.
But I will say the more involved the easier our efforts on the ground are.
But I will say the more involved the easier our efforts on the ground are.
