Do diesels really last forever?

vanguard · Jun 16, 2008

Damn, even I'm annoyed with my 2 1/2 year search for the right tow rig. At times I've been this close (holding thumb and index finger next to each other) to pulling the trigger and at other times I'm just kicking the tires. So today I filled up the tacoma with gas and it was $70. I started thinking that my loony plan of having a small fun DD and a real tow rig isn't that expensive after all. If it pays for itself in 2 years and I'm happier both when towing and when I'm not then this is a good thing.

I've been thinking that I could get an older tow rig but I don't want something unreliable. I really like that as soon as the buggy is strapped down to the trailer that my weekend's adventure is over. I can plug in the iPod, turn on the cold AC, and just chill on the drive home. I'll put it out like this....

Question: If you were looking for a cheap diesel truck what's the highest mileage that you consider? 200k? 275k? 150k?

On a related topic, he's my general breakdown of what to look for. Do you agree?

CTD: Top choice, ideally it's not on its first tranny.
Powerstroke: 7.3 is my 2nd choice, don't even consider the 6.0.
Duramax: Too new to be cheap.
Older Chevy 6.5: I raced one of these and beat it on every hill with my tacoma. :

Bones · Jun 16, 2008

Years back I bought a 96 2WD CTD, auto, Excab, long bed with 245K miles on it and in the year I had it (maybe less) I put 15K trouble free miles. Unloaded I got literally 22mpg, and towing my Toyota on a typical 16' trailer I got 15-16. Never an issue and I personally liked the auto for towing. I didn't bomb it or mod it one bit.

Juan_Hong_Loe · Jun 16, 2008

CTD is the way to go! I have pulled with all of the above and it is the best by far.

Cole · Jun 16, 2008

My question is why do you feel you need a Diesel? Your buggy hardly weighs anything. Why not a gasser?
If I was buying a truck tomorrow and was going to DD it and Tow every now and then I would buy a newer Z71.
John G. pulls his single seater and jeep with his Z71.

muchado · Jun 16, 2008

I'd be interested in trading my Excursion for a Tacoma. It's diesel, plenty of room to camp in, etc.
Details on your tacoma

Mine's a 2000 Excursion Limited 7.3L powerstroke w/5" MBRP and an intake... Previous owner treated it a lil ruff on the inside but mechanically great. Cool wheels N tires although I'd go for more of an all-terrain... 37's on 20's... 35" AT's would do much better for towing/mileage.

192K on the ticker

LMK if interested. I'd take a hit on it... 6 months ago I paid $14k for it---I know it's not worth near that right now w/ fuel prices where they are at. Any time I go wheelin' it's with my dad's truck/gooseneck so don't really need a diesel for myself. Actually talked with my dad about selling the Excursion and getting a tacoma this weekend.. Not in a huge rush though as I'm getting a bike on Saturday so 50mpg here I come. The excursion is PIMP if you're never gonna tow a gooseneck.. plennnty of room. A full air matress fits perfect in the back for camping--which is why in the back of my head I want to keep it, pay it off then get a more practical DD and let it sit for road trip rig.

Flat out honest mileage 12.5-13 around town (calculating for the diff in tire size factored in)... 15mpg easily on the highway average.. as high as 16 as low as 13 depending on winds.

bigsilly · Jun 16, 2008

I notice you said you would not consider the 6.0 powerstroke. Granted the 7.3 was a great engine, the later model 6.0's seem to be doing good. I would not look at a 2004 to mid 2005 6.0, but with the late 05's and newer they have had good luck. I did a ton of research on them before I bought my 06 6.0 and I found that the problems people were having mostly have been related to putting a programmer on them. I have not and will not put one on mine.

Peter

Bones · Jun 16, 2008

Cole said:
My question is why do you feel you need a Diesel? Your buggy hardly weighs anything. Why not a gasser?
If I was buying a truck tomorrow and was going to DD it and Tow every now and then I would buy a newer Z71.
John G. pulls his single seater and jeep with his Z71.

x2, but gas is getting right up there with Diesel it seems. It's a toss up IMO. Hell a solid Chevy 3/4 gasser would be more than enough and cheap enough to find. They are selling real cheap here. REAL cheap.

I think Van wants a dedicated tow slut for the buggy and a DD to zip around town in/commute.

Cole · Jun 16, 2008

bigsilly said:
I found that the problems people were having mostly have been related to putting a programmer on them. I have not and will not put one on mine.

Peter

You seriously are missing out. As long as you don't go crazy and stack chips you will be fine. You can easily gain 1-2 MPG by installing a programmer. I will never drive a Diesel without a programmer.

Juan_Hong_Loe · Jun 16, 2008

Bones said:
x2, but gas is getting right up there with Diesel it seems. It's a toss up IMO. Hell a solid Chevy 3/4 gasser would be more than enough and cheap enough to find. They are selling real cheap here. REAL cheap.

I think Van wants a dedicated tow slut for the buggy and a DD to zip around town in/commute.

Cause they have been underwater! :flipoff1:

BamaTJ · Jun 16, 2008

Man don't buy anything late model with a diesel, you will never breakeven on that deal. If you are talking old (which I think you are) I would say 1st or 2nd gen CTD or 7.3 Ford. For new vehicles, a 1/2 or 3/4 ton gasser would be my choice. I traded my big ass 07 Mega Cab CTD in on a 06 2500 Hemi. I have been super happy with it and pulling a buggy and small trailer. Can't beat the combo and gas is still .80-.90 cents cheaper than diesel. I don't think you will ever see the diesel cheaper than gas anymore for a long time, maybe ever.

This is one of those things that you need to break out the excel sheet to calculate up the value of a 1/2 or 3/4 gasser vs old diesel and DD. Add in insurance, tags, maintenance, etc and see where it lands. I did this and the 2 vehicle vs one method was just barely cheaper, so I went with a newer gas truck cause I value my garage space...

vanguard · Jun 16, 2008

So the idea is to have a fun DD (WRX, GTI, something else?) and a dedicated tow rig. It's not that I "need" a diesel but if you were getting something that sat 95% of the time and hauled 5k wouldn't you want one?

On the way to Harlan I had a guy in a Ford V8 gasser that couldn't keep up with my tacoma on mountain climbs. I didn't know him so at first I thought I was in his way and got in the gas. After we got to camp he told me he was trying to keep up and couldn't.

vanguard · Jun 16, 2008

MUCHADO said:
I'd be interested in trading my Excursion for a Tacoma. It's diesel, plenty of room to camp in, etc.
Details on your tacoma

2003 Impluse Red (Maroon) 4x4 5 speed Taco
3.4 liter motor
For about 1 year it was my off road rig and DD. It has sheet metal damage on 4 or 5 different panels. Nothing deep and it's only skin deep but it's a bit wrinkled.
ARB lockers front and rear (the rear locker must have a leaky o-ring because air comes out the diff. I need to get to that)
4.56 gears
32" BFG ATs (maybe 10k miles?)
I made the front and rear bumpers, they came out pretty well
I have the original floor mats somewhere, they should look pretty new. It's had toyota "all weather" mats in there for the since 2004 or 2005.
OME Lift kit with 882 springs, new leafs, etc. I've been really happy with the suspension.
When it was stock I got 22 mpg. I'd guess I'm somewhere in the high teens right now but I'm measuring the current tank. We'll see how it does. I know I got 11 mpg the last time I towed. (hand calculated)

All in all it's a pretty good truck. I use it pretty hard when I tow but I do change the oil on time with mobile 1 oil and filter. Mechanically it's a top notch truck.

Having said all that I'm not sure about a trade.

Craig · Jun 16, 2008

I would go with a gasser also. I just bought an 07 1500 Chevy for towing and dd. It gets 20-22 dd and between 10-12 towing. With the cost difference in fuel and matinance I could not justify the cost difference in a diesel. If you are going to be towing every weekend or for work it might be worth it, but only towing every other weekend I just don't see it. Just my 2 cents.

InDaShop · Jun 16, 2008

Ok gasoline is cheaper than diesel fuel. But a gasser gets less miles per gallon.

My wifes 5.3 Tahoe 13.2 mpg, My D-max 19.9 mpg (can back these numbers up, this isnt guessing)

Even though my wifes Tahoe is cheaper to fill it costs her more to drive per mile $0.07 more to be exact.

Tahoe D-max
$/gal $4.00 $4.60
Tank 24 24
Fillup $96.00 $110.40

MPG 13.2 19.9
Miles/Tank 316.8 477.6

Cost/Mile $0.30 $0.23

Difference $0.07
MILES 100000
Cost difference $7,187.45

So if we put 100,000 miles on our vehicles, it has cost her $7187.45 more at todays gas/fuel price spread.
At 100,000 miles which vehicle still has any value, worth, or life left in it? And we never took into account maintenance.

Hands down the diesel wins out. Even at higher cost of fuel over gas. Open factor the purchase price of the vehicles is a factor. My example holds them to be indifferent. In real wolrd the wifes Tahoe was more expensive than my D-max but they are different year of purchase dollars so I used replacement cost for my D-max.

I just dont get people that are out buying new cars that get 5-10 mpg better when the value of the car they are buying is still $30k+. Are they just trying to justify the new car in their head? $30k new investment will drive my diesel at todays cost 129,782 miles (6522 gallons), a diesel should do that. A gasser I doubt it.

Sorry guys, I'm bringing the economics with numbers to back up my statements, but the gasser battle over a diesel is bogus. And the "Whoa, the diesel upgrade costs over the gasser kill your arguement." The dealer by my house has diesels $20k off, and 0% for 60 months. Its perfect time to step into a brand spanking new one. Or find a 1 or two old and get it for 60-70% off its new sticker.

I know a guy through my dad that just bought an '07 D-max K2500 crewcab LT2package that was new in August from a guy for $17,800. OMG! I offered him $25k on Saturday and he laughed at me. People are dropping these things like deadweight, its a buyers market. Diesel up son!

blacksheep10 · Jun 16, 2008

1996-1998 early 12v diesel with a 5 speed. crazy bad ****ing ass longevity and reliablity with crazy milage for what you get. gonna cost you about 5K with 170k on the ticker. worth it.

Cole · Jun 16, 2008

Ford place in town has a 08 King Ranch F350 single wheel loaded for 40k it list for 65k

Bones · Jun 16, 2008

blacksheep10 said:
1996-1998 early 12v diesel with a 5 speed. crazy bad ****ing ass longevity and reliablity with crazy milage for what you get. gonna cost you about 5K with 170k on the ticker. worth it.

I paid more than that for my 96 2WD with 250K .

WAY more. I got hosed, but it was a good rig no doubt.

muchado · Jun 16, 2008

vanguard said:
2003 Impluse Red (Maroon) 4x4 5 speed Taco
3.4 liter motor
For about 1 year it was my off road rig and DD. It has sheet metal damage on 4 or 5 different panels. Nothing deep and it's only skin deep but it's a bit wrinkled.
ARB lockers front and rear (the rear locker must have a leaky o-ring because air comes out the diff. I need to get to that)
4.56 gears
32" BFG ATs (maybe 10k miles?)
I made the front and rear bumpers, they came out pretty well
I have the original floor mats somewhere, they should look pretty new. It's had toyota "all weather" mats in there for the since 2004 or 2005.
OME Lift kit with 882 springs, new leafs, etc. I've been really happy with the suspension.
When it was stock I got 22 mpg. I'd guess I'm somewhere in the high teens right now but I'm measuring the current tank. We'll see how it does. I know I got 11 mpg the last time I towed. (hand calculated)

All in all it's a pretty good truck. I use it pretty hard when I tow but I do change the oil on time with mobile 1 oil and filter. Mechanically it's a top notch truck.

Having said all that I'm not sure about a trade.

Understood thx for details sounds like nice truck... I'll probably be keeping the X since it's not worth selling for major loss and the scooter will be a nice 50ish mpg