Just another example of how many people like to shoot the crap but don't show up when it counts.
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Elbe Hills Focus Group
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Just another example of how many people like to shoot the crap but don't show up when it counts.
Actully there are those of us who do appreciate the you posting this any info you can give to the communty about the plans of any or all the trails in the NWW area.
NWW covers a big area, many people east of the mountains may not be to conserned about the trails on the west side, as for poeple on the west side may not care about trails on the east side. Me, i know i like to wheel both sides as much as possible and like to stay informed as much as possible. I know i have spread the word to many friends on both side of the mountain.
I my self have trouble finding info on what the land owners have planed for the areas. If you know where to find out the info on what is in the planing stage for the different trails i (DNR or NFS owned) know i would like to know.
If you could direct me to where i can get the info on what is planed for our area trails, please pass to me, i like to stay informed.
NWW covers a big area, many people east of the mountains may not be to conserned about the trails on the west side, as for poeple on the west side may not care about trails on the east side. Me, i know i like to wheel both sides as much as possible and like to stay informed as much as possible. I know i have spread the word to many friends on both side of the mountain.
I my self have trouble finding info on what the land owners have planed for the areas. If you know where to find out the info on what is in the planing stage for the different trails i (DNR or NFS owned) know i would like to know.
If you could direct me to where i can get the info on what is planed for our area trails, please pass to me, i like to stay informed.
HAHAHA Rich, I tried that one
I posted a thread in the fall with a heading of BUSYWILD IS CLOSED and proceeded to explain that we'll be working on the trail and that help is needed. I expected to see a TON of views but that didn't even trigger anyone to help out.
HAHAHA Rich, I tried that one
I posted a thread in the fall with a heading of BUSYWILD IS CLOSED and proceeded to explain that we'll be working on the trail and that help is needed. I expected to see a TON of views but that didn't even trigger anyone to help out.
I would like to be ORGANIZED when we are given the chance to speak at this meeting, with users replying - saying to COUNT on them to show up this time, having our questions / opinions wrote down to be asked of the DNR.
I myself, think alot of the users here, indeed don't tend to make it down to Elbe, at least as much as Reiter Trails. so there is a roadblock right there.
the meeting is on a thursday, people work / etc.
but if we can get a idea of people planning to attend and in the short time left, get this set up and planned to PRESENT our sides to the DNR in what we the users would like to see done, versus no one showing up or the DNR already forming a opinion / descision on their own.
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3 big topics in 1 to pull off,
listen then speak and wait............. for a ruling.
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1 = HEAR THE DNR
2 = WE FIGURE IT OUT ON OUR OWN WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO REMEDY THE PROBLEMS NOW AND IN THE FUTURE OF THE BUSYWILD, AND PRESENT THIS SOLOUTION AS A GROUP THATS IN AGREEMENT
3 = GET SOMETHING IN WRITING / AGREEMENT SIGNED, SO WE DO NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THIS TOPIC COMING UP AGAIN AND IT CAN BE ENFORCED / MAINTAINED BY ALL
***IF NO ONE IS ON THE SAME PAGE WHEN WE SHOW UP? it's going to be another bad case... can't we get input from everyone that actually uses the Elbe Orv area? what it is they want to see done and how we can get it done.
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When ever a gate or pole or somesort of system has been put in place, it's always been torn down or gone around. trying to limit rigs is a challenge, do we have a key and lock gate put in place? squeeze poles to go between? or a required winch post put at the top of a hill climb just to get the rig in up and over a starting obstacle?
There is a major challenge ahead of us, it's always been a leave it and let it develope from the use it gets and just maintain it along the way, but we have so many users now......
thats the part i do not get... so many users and none show up?
CHOP SHOP
Well-Known Member
leave the trail alone. maintian the bridges and parking/camping.
gate keepers are the answer.:awesomework:
the Busywild has no mountain views no lookouts and is generally nothing other than good wheelin. leave it the fawk alone.
its not like Evens with lots of mountain veiws, creeks, and different kinds of forest scenery. so these thing need to be preserved.:awesomework:
the Busywild is nothing more than a good 4x4 trail through a tree farm that will be logged and completly reworked someday soon (like the gay clearcut section). leave it alone. it does not need restrictions.
CHOP SHOP
Well-Known Member
do you get a comission for all the recruits you get? :flipoff: or at least a break in you member dues?:fawkdancesmiley: :haha: :haha:
Nope. I just get the satisfaction of seeing the association living on and its mission kept alive. That and our trails kept open and our sport alive:cheer:
Only if they make me the President............. :haha:
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You ain't going to like this, but thats why i speak out and open my mouth and take all kinds of heat for it at times, when i ask myself? shouldn't i just have remained silent... NO.
ELBE HILLS ORV AREA,
Should be GATED and only OPEN on weekends and by user permits.
*that would create funding, maybe detour some of the irresponsible offroaders, and/or give them information 1st hand before they head into the trail system. they'd have a defined map and rules / restrictions / requirements to go by. either way, like Capitol Forest closes yearly to allow the trails to heal, forest re-growth, etc.
maybe elbe needs to see some of the same as other areas have, C.F. has poles / bridges that only allow a certain size through them. it's worked so far and without all the crazyness or trouble we here about other places.
maybe it's time to make it MANDATORY to purchase a permit. and/or limit useage altogether on the trails to a set open / close date. this would give volunteers and everyone a chance to get the trail completely fixed and back in specs to keep it as suggested and needed, to remain worry free / etc.
A complete adoption by local clubs / groups / etc should be given control of operating this trail system on weekends only. and as far as restrictions for 1 specific part of elbe, no..... it's a straightline trail system. fix it and keep it the way it is. only make it well known to the users through the permits they buy / purchase with information packets as to what trail is what. re-structure the entire trail system, the resources are there for this, fallen trees can be placed along side of the entire trail system that is in question of help / fixes. this eliminates the user created by-passes. keeps the trail as it was made / formed to be. no exceptions / no chances of destroying it.
*PROBLEM SOLVED, poles at the begining to get through, if you fit? you can go. you can't base a restriction on the length of a vehicle. just use a POLE sytem and the problem is solved. line the trails with fallen trees, and during seasonal closures, go back in and restructure / strengthen the trail system.
SOUND ABOUT RIGHT?
everything stays the same, just a few trees lined and some work done to set entrance and exit poles in place. bobcats can fit thru these and be run thru to maintain the trail or have service entrances with gates to access the trail.
such as the busywild, line the whole trail with fallen trees. end of by-passes, you go in, you either back out or get yourself through. :;
President... Join up(in a club) ,be a member for a year and run for office. Yes its that simple. As for the balance of this post .... Rich you really have no clue as to how the govt. agencys work do you ? I tend to think that all you know of the process is what you have gleamed from these forums and imagined as the way things should be. I mean wow just WOW:eeek:
CHOP SHOP
Well-Known Member
Rich you have no clue.:haha: :haha: :haha: you are acting like this an amusment park.:haha: :haha: :haha:
its a dirt trail through the woods that should be ran in less than 2-3 hours.:awesomework:
all that garb is not needed, just a knarly 1st obsticle to keep the wrong rigs out. over builts are no more at fault than underbuilts.
have you ever been there? all this overuse that keeps getting brought up is BS. I have been there over a hundred times and seen all these tow rigs parked and never run into more than a few rigs on the busy.
its a dirt trail through the woods that should be ran in less than 2-3 hours.:awesomework:
all that garb is not needed, just a knarly 1st obsticle to keep the wrong rigs out. over builts are no more at fault than underbuilts.
have you ever been there? all this overuse that keeps getting brought up is BS. I have been there over a hundred times and seen all these tow rigs parked and never run into more than a few rigs on the busy.
It would just be nice to see / find a end all soloution to the busywild.
at the very least, it comes down to educating 4wd owners. far too long i said from the get go, make a special license requirement for 4wd vehicle owners. that would school most of the irresponsible ones. if everyone was on the same page, joined a club - a reputable one - things would be great, ok better.
i know there is more REDTAPE in government than anyone, there'd have to be a special office for the office, a person to watch over the person watching, a funding account for the fund account. a stack of papers for the stack of papers, etc. etc. etc.
it's all come down to the user, if we could just simply get the users attention, and everyone followed the rules... it would all be great.
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I'am not sure anymore with the increase of 4wd vehicles and the ability we now have to make any ordinary rig into a capable offroader... it just seems to escalate on all the trails we have, which are few and it would be awful to lose even just one. let alone a whole complete system.
what are some things that would SIMPLIFY a resoloution to the problems being faced in the eyes of DNR on the Busywild;
vehicle restrictions - if the trail was made for SWB rigs, then make it obvious. a set of poles at the begining along the way on the trail and at the end.
now it's the matter of by-passes and trail upkeeping. which has been going on for decades. so we have figured out how to keep out the wide rigs with poles in place. *just like capitol forest does. hell if it's a length issue as well, make the entrance a squeeze thru with a specific set of poles to corner around, that would pretty much solve that one too.
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I just think it's the DNR that wants something? The users never went public asking for restrictions did they? i've always wanted a defined trail, lines that are obvious and unable to make go-arounds or by-passes. the busywild is under 2miles. thats a total of 4 miles of fence / layed trees / rocks to define it. make it so it's impossible to leave the ORIGINAL TRAIL.
???????
at the very least, it comes down to educating 4wd owners. far too long i said from the get go, make a special license requirement for 4wd vehicle owners. that would school most of the irresponsible ones. if everyone was on the same page, joined a club - a reputable one - things would be great, ok better.
i know there is more REDTAPE in government than anyone, there'd have to be a special office for the office, a person to watch over the person watching, a funding account for the fund account. a stack of papers for the stack of papers, etc. etc. etc.
it's all come down to the user, if we could just simply get the users attention, and everyone followed the rules... it would all be great.
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I'am not sure anymore with the increase of 4wd vehicles and the ability we now have to make any ordinary rig into a capable offroader... it just seems to escalate on all the trails we have, which are few and it would be awful to lose even just one. let alone a whole complete system.
what are some things that would SIMPLIFY a resoloution to the problems being faced in the eyes of DNR on the Busywild;
vehicle restrictions - if the trail was made for SWB rigs, then make it obvious. a set of poles at the begining along the way on the trail and at the end.
now it's the matter of by-passes and trail upkeeping. which has been going on for decades. so we have figured out how to keep out the wide rigs with poles in place. *just like capitol forest does. hell if it's a length issue as well, make the entrance a squeeze thru with a specific set of poles to corner around, that would pretty much solve that one too.
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I just think it's the DNR that wants something? The users never went public asking for restrictions did they? i've always wanted a defined trail, lines that are obvious and unable to make go-arounds or by-passes. the busywild is under 2miles. thats a total of 4 miles of fence / layed trees / rocks to define it. make it so it's impossible to leave the ORIGINAL TRAIL.
???????
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TreeClimber
Well-Known Member
Rich was there during the fiasco last year with the f150, and, if I recall correctly, spent the night on the trail. He wasn't broken down, but several others in the group were.
CHOP SHOP
Well-Known Member
Im still new here ,but I do remembering digging this story up and I stand corrected. he has been there but is clueless. none of that stuff is practical.
CHOP SHOP
Well-Known Member
no they didnt. but the four people that showed up at the meeting did not speak up for what was right.
it was a fullsize chevy and before we even hit the busy i was telling / asking other to turn around - go back. *again, this responsibility wouldn't have fallen on me if there were poles in place.
i've had guns pulled on me, been i fights over telling someone to get out, you don't belong on such and such trail. i'am not a chicken **** to confront people.
it just would sure make it easy to not have to - with a set of squeeze poles.
================= yeah, Tony i was way out front when on the mainline that truck 1st got stuck, then a cherokee snapped a u-joint, a wrangler had issues / etc. people listened and left. this guy was bound and determined to keep going.
he learned a valuable lesson that day and night, so did the others. and everyone that came to the rescue. which was escalated because of woman at home worrying and online abilities to spread like wildfire. mass panic.
all was needed was a little daylight, some group thinking, and a few spare parts. a sami can only pull so many cherokees, before it fights back and refuses to do it anymore. :haha: my sami did ok though, we all got out, except for the guy in the fullsizer who bailed. anyhow...........
sure Karl will jump in here now and school me or blame me some more.
I'am nobodys daddy, i made it clear to as to what the rules requirements and expectations were. no one blamed me, but all held me responsible for it. that was some bullshit.
grown men do this on a daily basis, it's called offroading.
now some have a opinion - this or that should only be allowed, humm... ok fine, then make it so this or that is only allowed and stop putting that blame on me. but remember, there is always going to be another guy looking for a way in, or a group of atvs buzzing by your group or a fullsizer pushing through, maybe even a methcamp or two along the way as well.
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Private ORV areas sound very good, no **** to deal with. there managed and controlled and always there without that jeopardy of being closed or some new restriction imposed.
by me replying in here to this thread, maybe it has brought attention to people and their NOW aware of the meeting - :haha: either way, it appears that NANCY wants something... and that is what the meeting is going to be about. Nancy is welcoming us to attend and listen..........
now do i have your attention?
Let's go to this meeting and listen to what she has to say; I'd like to ask her if it's too far fetched, just a idea... how she feels about being a part of a few major offroad sites or setting her own up for users to be a part of to listen / hear and learn or take part in her AGENDA.
obviously this meeting is about ELBE, and we that use that trail system should attend this meeting to hear her speak.:corn:
TreeClimber
Well-Known Member
I stand corrected (again) as it wasn't an f150 but a chevy K20
Rich ,are you for or agenst the restrictions that the DNR want to put on the trail?
It has always seemed to me that the whole discution on the trail restriction was to put a stop to it. I presume (unless i am wrong)that the PNWFWDA does not want the restriction, but yet you are posting in favor for the restrictions.
Wich side are you on? (DNR or PNWFWDA)
It has always seemed to me that the whole discution on the trail restriction was to put a stop to it. I presume (unless i am wrong)that the PNWFWDA does not want the restriction, but yet you are posting in favor for the restrictions.
Wich side are you on? (DNR or PNWFWDA)
If you don't want to join an organization, that keeps the trails open, that is your choice, and if you don't, then you have no right to complain about changes that take place, it's the same in any arena, if you don't vote, then you have no right to criticize the government. If you do join, then possibly you could make a difference and be informed. Pretty cool huh :awesomework:
AWE..... now we finally are having a few Q&A's on the subject at hand.
:stirpot:
I'am for RESTRICTIONS.
BUT......
NOW I MUST ATTEND THIS MEETING, because my restrictions differ from what I'am not even aware of yet if any at all are about to be discussed.
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I would like to see the BUSYWILD kept for SWB rigs.
I would like to see the trail LINED with fallen trees to prevent by-passes / go arounds. *(in areas where the lined / layed trees would stop this.)
I would like to see a GATE and/or SQUEEZE POLES put in place at the begining and along the way and ending to prevent over-sized rig's from geting in. *(it's not so much a bigger rig or longer one for me, it's that the trail used to be really tight and twisty and specificly for SWB rigs.)
and last......
NO tire restrictions / no length restrictions - just a simple set of poles placed and set with-in a width thats average for all the majority of built SWB rigs.
========== thats where i stand, :;
as for a better soloution? like someone said, it's just a dirt trail through the woods. leave it alone and it will disappear over time. and no one would ever know it exsisted there. but i'd like to think, that since the begining the trails are something cool to see turn into what they are from years of trail use, some call it abuse... 2 years ago, the busywild was less wild, 4 years ago the busywild was even less wild, 5 years ago - i think you get it...
this is whats so cool to me at least, 10 years ago... to now. i've watched that trail go from a sidewalk of twists and turns to a well used user trail. that is ever changing along with the times and changes in 4wd rigs. i tik alot of people expect to go out and buy a ford explorer or jeep wrangler and head for trails. yeah, ummmmm. ok we should offer trails for them too. we do, it's called TAHUYA. any stock rig can pretty much do tahuya.
but elbe is for the rigs that have created it, it's not a parkinglot or alley way, it's a constantly changing trail system being formed by the users.
if we continue to go back every year and repave it, then whats the use?
I like seeing it develope, change, and become what it is. if others don't get this or understand... i can't for the life of me, figure out a better way to explain it. sure the maintenance needs to be there to maintain the system, but we should BULLDOZE it, or make it where a stock rig can do the BUSYWILD, maybe it was do-able back in the day, maybe it was do-able a few years ago, but now it's a killer trail... that just needs de-fining.
and if it can't remain that way, then this is why the meeting i'am assuming is taking place. hope to see some of you there.
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