CHOP SHOP
Well-Known Member
so all 2500 people voted to let the DNR bend all 2500 of them over that night?
sounds fair sign me up!
-
Help Support Hardline Crawlers :
Elbe Hills Focus Group
- Thread starter Gibby1
- Start date
- Status
so all 2500 people voted to let the DNR bend all 2500 of them over that night?
sounds fair sign me up!
Just when you were starting to impress me with your posts. :hi:
:blabla: :blabla: :blabla: :blabla:
Wrong Brad - again. It comes down to you not understanding the process, and apparently, not caring to understand.
Nancy has listed to everyone, you have that part right. But it was PNW input that got her to wait for further review.
There were similar events with the closing of Evan's Creek for the winter, but I'm sure all or most of you forget about the behind the scenes PNW involvement in preventing that...
It is called a FOCUS MEETING, not an election, Have you been to a focus meeting? No voting at any that I have seen. It is a time when the land managers get together with the users and they discuss the problems they have and what they intend to do to resolve these problems, and if you are lucky enough to have someone like Nancy involved they may ask for a little imput, if you recall the original thread, Gibby convinced them to make the restrictions larger than what DNR originally came up with. The restrictions were NEVER written in stone, the PNW was as surprised as everyone else at the Meeting, and have been in negotiations ever since.
CHOP SHOP
Well-Known Member
x2 I am not trying to run fullsizes down the busy.
and support the width restriction, just not the wheelbase restriction. long rigs climb better and dont dig as much. yes they might rub more. IMO rubs are less important than chewed roots and erosion.
this plan is PERFECT imo.
A bit of both. There are a number of people who favor retaining the Busywild as a SWB trail only. I talk with people just like you do. I hear things as well. I don't have names or details, just rumors and heresay. Per Nancy, there have been people in her ear complaining about the LWB rigs destroying the busywild. I don't know why they wouldn't be there.
82" outside of tire to outside of tire.
CHOP SHOP
Well-Known Member
Your forgeting one thing Brad. The 4 users that were at the meeting didnt represent 4 users they represented the PNW4WDA and it 2500 or so member familys.
we have been the only ones to bother showing up and doing something besides bitching on a website. Go figure
I joined this site around the same time as this meeting and would of been there if were posted in gibbys threads. he is the rep, right. but the meeting was posted in 426riders threads with no replies and no bumps.
I drove home from the shop at about 7:30 or 8 and saw all the cars at the fire station and thought, I wonder whats going on at the fire station to myself. then later that night DALE not 426rider posted up the results of the meeting----leading us to this now.
It must be a cold day in Hell cause Brad just agreed with me on somthing.:cheer:
CHOP SHOP
Well-Known Member
Im not that bad just looking to get this meeting noticed.
Ill be there and Ill drive my beater, maybe.
IMO, your K5 is too big for the busy.
CHOP SHOP
Well-Known Member
pics or ban:fawkdancesmiley:
has it been there and done that. or just assuming.:corn:
2 questions. Have you driven the busy lately?
Did you get any body damage?
My club members that just ran the busy last week said that my 4runner is too big right now.
A toypickup locked front and rear on 38s and with a winch, left without a single straight body panel.
Have fun with that:haha: gives us some before and after pics and stay on the trail:cheer:
What should matter;
Keeping the trails open #1
Working together to find a resolution
Letting everyone know, regardless of club affiliations or groups / etc, that each individual person that uses elbe to offroad at is just as important and should be counted / listened to as well.
I think this is going somewheres, except what we have is a bunch of people with varied answers / opinions and expectations.
-------------------------------------
I want to be classified and see others, not just a club or it's members as 1 opinion, i'd like to see the TALLY of where each person stands on this issue.
instead of the 2500 / or / 5000 members all agree this way or that way. or this club wants this and that club wants that and the DNR wants this.
--------------------------------------
I'am a 40yr old male, that drives a daily driver / weekend offroader, that was born and raised in washington state, who has owned more and lost track of how many 4wd vehicles since the age of 18. i remember trails that people do not even know exsisted here. i live for my freedom and pay taxes to keep it.
i have 2 kids and we go out on weekends, when i'am not broke... and the cheapest entertainment and recreation for us, is a tank of gas and our 4wd vehicle. we head out to a ORV area and just make the day of it. we eat a lunch, take in views and fresh air. and come away with pictures and stories to tell. my kids love to be away from the city, i like to play on trails. and this is what we do as a family. for the last 5 years, i've been seeing something along the lines of what can be considered a VIRTUAL reality online of thousands of users online taking part in these forums / sites. most of them have never met, maybe they will one day. but we all share something alike, we offroad and build offroaders and some how relate to each other online like one big family.
thoughmost of us, never meet each other, we know each other better than words can describe. we are just one big family. if we could all have 1 big site instead of many many different sites, it would be great.
i've been offroading for so long now, that it's just now setting in on how much washington state has grown. where trails once were, are now housing developments. or small citys that popped up overnight. where we had forts, or bike tracks or places to play as kids.
my outlet is to get away from the city, others may like sticking around and walking the streets or going to bars / nightclubs. i like to get away, and if i'am no longer able to go and play on trails that my tax dollars also pay for, like horse owners, motorcycles, atv's, hikers, etc... then i want a refund!
so far, i live next to mountain / forest, where everyone has a place to play except a 4x4 / 4wd vehicle? it's called Capitol Forest in Olympia Wa. there are motorcyle / atv trails, hking trails, horse trails, camping, you name it and it's there... EXCEPT FOR OFFROADING?
i have to drive almost a 100 miles in any direction from olympia to go to a "LEGAL" orv area to enjoy offroading legally.
tahuya, evans creek or elbe are the closest for me.
I would like to think my voice is heard over 2500 or 5000 other club members too, i don't represent a small tribe of people. just myself and others like me. we should have our opinions heard as well, right? shouldn't we...
again, i just want to be able to offroad, i've dealt with enough land closures and small forests turned into citys overnight. why is it so hard to put a end to all these yearly scares or new restrictions or closures of trails?
lets make a agreement, among all users and the DNR / State of Washington.
where everyone - agrees that once and for all, we can agree and find a solution to fix and correct and/or put a end to the scare tactics of not knowing whats what or where is where. lets' come together on this issue and have everyone give thier own individual opinion on where they stand for the;
ELBE HILLS ORV AREA
*ok, so now i'am under the impression that theres really NO reason to show up to this focus meeting, especially if no one is organized. we will have a group on one side and another on the other. with some in between. while the PNW4WDA supposedly has the upper say in matters or is listened to more so than the rest? is that how i'am hearing it...
should we just sit back, find a location to submit our opinions on elbe.
do we need to join the PNW4WDA to be heard? and again, this isn't a slam agains't PNW4WDA, but more so a question directly to PNW4WDA.
as a non-member, are we allowed to hear your individual member opinions on this, will we hear that members actually use the tral, or they don't / never have... most likely won't... but still get a vote or say in it?
how does it work for members of the PNW4WDA?
I myself just want to hear from the DNR as a taxpayer / user of elbe and want to listen and be heard too, but if what i think i'am hearing... is that basicly the PNW4WDA sways the vote, gets more attention or is more respected,
then to hell with it all.
It's pretty bad when we have so many different types of offroad vehicles, then throw in the different people which ofroading means many different aspects to them, some like mudbogging or think that is offroading, some are rock crawlers, and that is the only offroading to them. stockers just out to drive a dirt path through the woods. theres tons of users, not many in clubs and some old as death itself still alive that no nothing about or care for that matter about online offroad forums, or these clubs. moral of the story is;
Is PNW4WDA the only heard voice at this meeting, and it sounded like they were not even ready / prepared for this meeting. did this meeting just come up or pop outta no where? i understand people have things to do, very busy and all.... but ummm, 5,000 members - you'd think one of them would of known about this, right?
not being a smartass, but i feel it's a lost cause at this point for anyone to show up at this focus meeting unless your a PNW4WDA member. am i wrong, but from what i read, it sure sounded like the single individual or anyone other than a PNW4WDA member was not valued as much or listened to.
again, where can we be heard or get the different opinions on each user that will make this descision fair and a decent outcome for all.
ok, thats alot of typing, but again.............
it's more than just a dirt trail through the woods, and EVERYONE that uses elbe should be heard or at the very least, have their opinion placed into a catagory.
***maybe a letter devised by the DNR sent out or available for all that want to participate, a set date for them to be turned in. the letter can contain a simple YES or NO check off of questions compiled by the DNR sent out to the users, to vote on and send back. then it's over with. the results determine the outcome. the date is set and then the work begins to accomplish it.
?
I've said my peace in this thread. maybe thats what is needed so all feel as though they have a part in this.
Keeping the trails open #1
Working together to find a resolution
Letting everyone know, regardless of club affiliations or groups / etc, that each individual person that uses elbe to offroad at is just as important and should be counted / listened to as well.
I think this is going somewheres, except what we have is a bunch of people with varied answers / opinions and expectations.
-------------------------------------
I want to be classified and see others, not just a club or it's members as 1 opinion, i'd like to see the TALLY of where each person stands on this issue.
instead of the 2500 / or / 5000 members all agree this way or that way. or this club wants this and that club wants that and the DNR wants this.
--------------------------------------
I'am a 40yr old male, that drives a daily driver / weekend offroader, that was born and raised in washington state, who has owned more and lost track of how many 4wd vehicles since the age of 18. i remember trails that people do not even know exsisted here. i live for my freedom and pay taxes to keep it.
i have 2 kids and we go out on weekends, when i'am not broke... and the cheapest entertainment and recreation for us, is a tank of gas and our 4wd vehicle. we head out to a ORV area and just make the day of it. we eat a lunch, take in views and fresh air. and come away with pictures and stories to tell. my kids love to be away from the city, i like to play on trails. and this is what we do as a family. for the last 5 years, i've been seeing something along the lines of what can be considered a VIRTUAL reality online of thousands of users online taking part in these forums / sites. most of them have never met, maybe they will one day. but we all share something alike, we offroad and build offroaders and some how relate to each other online like one big family.
thoughmost of us, never meet each other, we know each other better than words can describe. we are just one big family. if we could all have 1 big site instead of many many different sites, it would be great.
i've been offroading for so long now, that it's just now setting in on how much washington state has grown. where trails once were, are now housing developments. or small citys that popped up overnight. where we had forts, or bike tracks or places to play as kids.
my outlet is to get away from the city, others may like sticking around and walking the streets or going to bars / nightclubs. i like to get away, and if i'am no longer able to go and play on trails that my tax dollars also pay for, like horse owners, motorcycles, atv's, hikers, etc... then i want a refund!
so far, i live next to mountain / forest, where everyone has a place to play except a 4x4 / 4wd vehicle? it's called Capitol Forest in Olympia Wa. there are motorcyle / atv trails, hking trails, horse trails, camping, you name it and it's there... EXCEPT FOR OFFROADING?
i have to drive almost a 100 miles in any direction from olympia to go to a "LEGAL" orv area to enjoy offroading legally.
tahuya, evans creek or elbe are the closest for me.
I would like to think my voice is heard over 2500 or 5000 other club members too, i don't represent a small tribe of people. just myself and others like me. we should have our opinions heard as well, right? shouldn't we...
again, i just want to be able to offroad, i've dealt with enough land closures and small forests turned into citys overnight. why is it so hard to put a end to all these yearly scares or new restrictions or closures of trails?
lets make a agreement, among all users and the DNR / State of Washington.
where everyone - agrees that once and for all, we can agree and find a solution to fix and correct and/or put a end to the scare tactics of not knowing whats what or where is where. lets' come together on this issue and have everyone give thier own individual opinion on where they stand for the;
ELBE HILLS ORV AREA
*ok, so now i'am under the impression that theres really NO reason to show up to this focus meeting, especially if no one is organized. we will have a group on one side and another on the other. with some in between. while the PNW4WDA supposedly has the upper say in matters or is listened to more so than the rest? is that how i'am hearing it...
should we just sit back, find a location to submit our opinions on elbe.
do we need to join the PNW4WDA to be heard? and again, this isn't a slam agains't PNW4WDA, but more so a question directly to PNW4WDA.
as a non-member, are we allowed to hear your individual member opinions on this, will we hear that members actually use the tral, or they don't / never have... most likely won't... but still get a vote or say in it?
how does it work for members of the PNW4WDA?
I myself just want to hear from the DNR as a taxpayer / user of elbe and want to listen and be heard too, but if what i think i'am hearing... is that basicly the PNW4WDA sways the vote, gets more attention or is more respected,
then to hell with it all.
It's pretty bad when we have so many different types of offroad vehicles, then throw in the different people which ofroading means many different aspects to them, some like mudbogging or think that is offroading, some are rock crawlers, and that is the only offroading to them. stockers just out to drive a dirt path through the woods. theres tons of users, not many in clubs and some old as death itself still alive that no nothing about or care for that matter about online offroad forums, or these clubs. moral of the story is;
Is PNW4WDA the only heard voice at this meeting, and it sounded like they were not even ready / prepared for this meeting. did this meeting just come up or pop outta no where? i understand people have things to do, very busy and all.... but ummm, 5,000 members - you'd think one of them would of known about this, right?
not being a smartass, but i feel it's a lost cause at this point for anyone to show up at this focus meeting unless your a PNW4WDA member. am i wrong, but from what i read, it sure sounded like the single individual or anyone other than a PNW4WDA member was not valued as much or listened to.
again, where can we be heard or get the different opinions on each user that will make this descision fair and a decent outcome for all.
ok, thats alot of typing, but again.............
it's more than just a dirt trail through the woods, and EVERYONE that uses elbe should be heard or at the very least, have their opinion placed into a catagory.
***maybe a letter devised by the DNR sent out or available for all that want to participate, a set date for them to be turned in. the letter can contain a simple YES or NO check off of questions compiled by the DNR sent out to the users, to vote on and send back. then it's over with. the results determine the outcome. the date is set and then the work begins to accomplish it.
?
I've said my peace in this thread. maybe thats what is needed so all feel as though they have a part in this.
Was at elbe on New Years Day... Didn't run the busy... It's a mess this time of year...
There was alot of stupid people stuck in their tow rigs on the fs roads...
I don't have to many problems getting where I need to go... It's not your regular mall crawler K5...
I stay on the trail... If I can't make it I'll winch...
And is that a 103" single cab shortbed or 112" long boy wheelbase toyota???
There was alot of stupid people stuck in their tow rigs on the fs roads...
I don't have to many problems getting where I need to go... It's not your regular mall crawler K5...
I stay on the trail... If I can't make it I'll winch...
And is that a 103" single cab shortbed or 112" long boy wheelbase toyota???
- Status
