Elbe Hills Focus Group

[dirtygoat]

Guys...... someone asked my opinion on where i stand on or as far as restrictions / ideas go, how about you all?

WHERE OR WHAT IS YOUR STAND / IDEA?

Is anything really needed at all... should there be a limit or restriction or measure put in place for any specific trail at elbe?

whats your take on all this...

I think there should be a restriction on guys taking stock toyotas with 38s on the busy...

And there's alot of buggys that are bigger than a K5...

Restrictions aside, alot of people go on the busy that have no reason to be on a trail at all... These are the people that have created alot of the problems with the trail systems today...

Instead of signs or squeeze poles, maybe we should have an IQ test as a requirement???

 

[CHOP SHOP]

Going wheeling is alot different than going winching...:masturbanana[1]:

**** I shoulda said that along time ago.

dont know haw many times some ass in a pee wee (mildly built) rig tells me Im stupid if I think you need a rig on 38s and lockers for the busy. you dont need them, there right.

I just never said to my buddies, hey want go WINCHIN.

it usually goes, wanna go WHEELIN

dragging my anchor over every tree root and through all the holes is not enjoyable nor enviromently friendly.:awesomework:

but hey they can do it!!:awesomework:

 

[reddog64]

82" outside of tire to outside of tire.

hmm...
I'll have to air down after the squeeze poles...
...

Why doesnt DNR just educate people about responsible wheeling...
I agree with whoever said - tree rubs are better than the erosion -

It seems that puting a size restriction is like telling people with certain rigs your not welcome here...

Excuse me for driving a full size ****ing rig...
Last time I checked i pay taxes too...
I'm not trying to say this is "jeepers" trying to keep "full size rigs" off the trail... but it feels like i'm un-welcomed, because of what i drive...
that aint cool... ( not picking on jeeps, my brother has one... )
I got into 4 wheeling cause of the nice friendly people...

I personally dont like to see trails torn up... I know when to and when not to use the gas pedal...

And i was a member of the PNW4WDA :fawkdancesmiley:
And i've done trail cleanups... :fawkdancesmiley:

 

[reddog64]

I doubt a blazer could make it past the first obstacle, I run a TJ and about ripped my top off twice.

I know 2 blazers that have run the busy... :masturbanana[1]:

Anyways...
Now that I'm not pissed off from another pending restriction on my rig...

Yes, something will need to be done to keep the trail open at all...

Please just keep in mind this is a sport for everyone, not just short skinny trucks...

 

[Rich1]

I think the role of PNW4WDA is to keep the originality of the BUSYWILD.

it was originally created by SWB rigs, *(jeeps) and has always had that small tight and twisty bit to it. over the years though as offroading has become one of the fastest growing sports / hobbies... many more users have ventured out. under the impressions, that these legal "ORV" areas are what and where they're supposed to be, this is why they're there, to offroad.

some OBEY the rules, requirements / restrictions... recomendations.

SOME DON'T, and then we have trouble. what was once a maintainable trail has been turned into a slush bucket. everyone has different views and opinions as to what offroading is to them.

i fully agree at this point that EVERY trail in our state should be re-done without restrictions or limits. just make ALL trails accessible by all rigs. with go arounds. *(Hell the by-passes and go arounds are already there!)

what has happened is; the sport has ballooned out of control, with very few places open to legally go offroading at. and more and more people are hitting the trails, not aware of what lies ahead. not made aware of restrictions, and not using common sense when applicable.

all in all.......

Elbe is a straight line... why not just open it up to limitless use with out restrictions, and use the go arounds or by-passes thee / exsisting now.
re-structure the mainline, to allow ANY rig in. then build obstacles along the way on the sides for a challenge.

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isn't that what is being talked about or up for disccusion now?

*whats wrong with change, no trail is going to remain the same unless we shoot it with SHOTCRETE and call it done. is this what we need to do to stop EROSION? cover the entire trail system in SHOTCRETE and be done with it.

I'am just in awe at - these meetings always taking place.


why? it's obvious - just from this thread alone, FULL SIZE rigs think they have a right to run the busy. so nothing is going to change.

I REMEMBER WHEN MY SAMI BARELY FIT THROUGH THE TREES, I THOUGHT... WOW THEM JEEPS MUST REALLY BE TAKEN SOME BODY DAMAGE. now those trees are long gone that kept out the fullsizers, BECAUSE THEY CUT THEM DOWN.

 

[Gibby1]

683 views thus far.........


So whats the word...

Should people show up and attend this meeting or is a PNW4WDA member / rep trying to get this postponed for a later date to have a discussion among the 5,000 members?

I'am curious to attend, even if it means we don't get a chance to speak on the issues they toss out. *(don't feel it's right though.) but would like to hear the DNR and what they have to say concerning Elbe.

Whats the word on this meeting,:corn: Is it still on now?

Yes, the meeting is still on.

 

[Gibby1]

Tugged???:eeek: Just got this rig???:eeek: What is he doing on the busy then???:eeek:

Many a blazer has done the busy... Are you new??? And I don't have a top, so no worries...

Here's what you don't understand. Just because you CAN do the busy, doesn't mean you SHOULD.

 

[reddog64]

why? it's obvious - just from this thread alone, FULL SIZE rigs think they have a right to run the busy. so nothing is going to change.

I REMEMBER WHEN MY SAMI BARELY FIT THROUGH THE TREES, I THOUGHT... WOW THEM JEEPS MUST REALLY BE TAKEN SOME BODY DAMAGE. now those trees are long gone that kept out the fullsizers, BECAUSE THEY CUT THEM DOWN.

So who pissed you off in a full sized rig...
And you THINK YOU have the right to tell me where i can and cant RESPONSIBLY wheel... :flipoff:

RESPONSIBLE people dont cut the trees down... only people with stock bumpers and no winch do... How much "skinny pedal" did he use trygin to get through stuff... and I'm sure he was with these responsible people too...

This is basically a pissing contest between small rigs and full size rigs...

What's next.. can i not go to Naches?

You said it was created by SWB rigs... that's great... Jeeps have always been used to wheel... now more and more people are using different (read LARGER) trucks... I think it's safe to say most of the trails in washington arent exactly full size friendly... and if they are.. they arent challenging...

So I'm gonna suggest that short wheel base rigs stay off the full size trails cause they leave winch marks all over the place and tear stuff up... :looser:

There will always be a arguement between small toys and larger trucks...
All I can do is voice my opinion that it's BS that another trail will be taken away from full size rigs because someone gets pissed off...

Please just remember this is a sport for all to be involved in, not just you in your jeep :awesomework:

 

[426rider]

The quad and Motorcycle guys have the same argument. When is a motorcycle trail wide enough for quads, when is a quad trail wide enough for a narrow 4x4, when is a narrow 4x4 trail wide enough for a fullsize 4x4? When does it end. Now if someone wanted to start wheeling their tank, should we let em go plow through all our trails making them wide enough for him? Like said before in fewer words, just because you can fit between the trees somehow doesn't mean you belong. At this point I think the busywild can be done in a built fullsize probably without much damage to the environment. Who I think doesn't belong is any rig with an idiot behind the wheel.


I think everyone that cares should show up to this meeting.

 

[dirtygoat]

Here's what you don't understand. Just because you CAN do the busy, doesn't mean you SHOULD.

Just because you can fit on a trail or even find the trail for that matter doesn't mean you should be on it...

I, on the other hand, can and should... I've lived here for 38 yrs... I've paid my share of taxes... And have just as much right as any other American to enjoy the outdoors...

This attitude that you have toward anyone in a fullsize rig is pretty childish...

Again, IQ test, son...

 

[dirtygoat]

The quad and Motorcycle guys have the same argument. When is a motorcycle trail wide enough for quads, when is a quad trail wide enough for a narrow 4x4, when is a narrow 4x4 trail wide enough for a fullsize 4x4? When does it end. Now if someone wanted to start wheeling their tank, should we let em go plow through all our trails making them wide enough for him? Like said before in fewer words, just because you can fit between the trees somehow doesn't mean you belong. At this point I think the busywild can be done in a built fullsize probably without much damage to the environment, but not with a fullsize and an idiot behind the wheel.


I think everyone that cares should show up to this meeting.

So are you saying the only idiots out there behind the wheel of a 4x4 are in fullsize rigs???:eeek:

Sounds like an idiot statement to me...:looser:

 

[426rider]

So are you saying the only idiots out there behind the wheel of a 4x4 are in fullsize rigs???:eeek:

Sounds like an idiot statement to me...:looser:

No, idiots are behind the wheel of all different vehicles, and none of them belong on the busy.

 

[dirtygoat]

Your worse that a woman.

No, idiots are behind the wheel of all different vehicles, and none of them belong on the busy.



So go find a dirtbike, or better yet a horse trail, maybe the lawn of the capital and go on have fun, because you pay taxes here you can go anywhere right?

Dude, you really don't get it do you??? Where do you get off saying who can and can't???

What are you??? The Trail Nazi??? It was started by a ditbike, then a quad, then a narrow 4x4,,, blah, blah, blah... go to the capital and play on the lawn,,, blah, blah, blah...

You might just be the reason trails get shut down,,, Stupidity...

 

[Rich1]

LIKE I SAID.....

tHIS IS THE CONFRONTATIONAL AGRUMENT THAT DEVELOPES

I've never been more aware of my surroundings and informed as to what trail "I" can be on and what trail "I" can't be on.

YOU don't get it.

Trails are created, then sanctions are placed on them, restrictions, and basic requirements / rules, to FOLLOW.

=========

If you READ the requirements for ELBE HILLS ORV then you would understand the history, background, rules, restrictions, and requirements.

i too pay taxes, and i also want my say in matters, when it comes to debates or sanctions / restrictions being placed on trails i use. but remember.... we do not own nothing, it is not our property. we do not hold titles to the land. we are just allowed users. and like everywheres else on the road, state lands or etc, we must obey and follow laws.

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NOW, if i become the NEW rep for Elbe... things will change dramatically.

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***Currently though, i want to hear everyones opinion, not a fight or pissing match. I have my own agenda, and it's not secretive or hidden. yes i believe times have changed and every offroad vehicle should be allowed to play. but as it sits, the area is not set up for that, and that is what this meeting is about. to see the changes that could happen to allow this, or ban it from happening. like yourself in a fullsize rig, who believes HE has every right to be there as any other rig does...

i kinda agree, but.........

the trail isn't ready yet. it has been abused to allow fullsize rigs in. it was never, NEVER accessible by a fullsize rig in the past. they forced their way in.
its not a matter of the little guys do not want the big guys in there, it was a trail set up specificly for little rigs. thats what made it what it was, what it is. now it's THRASHED, and the people who have been there since the begining can VERIFY this.

I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR OPINIONS ON WHAT THE LONG TERM GOAL IS; what others would like to see happen, i believe in my heart - every trail system should be re-done to allow every rig - from stock to extreme on the trails. just design them - as they are ending up now, with by-passes or go-arounds. because sooner or later - someone will attempt to travel the trail, even if "WE" TATTOO IT ON THEIR FOREHEADS - THAT THEY DO NOT BELONG ON THEM.

ok, so - let's just hear positive comments or input on what you want?

VERSUS the pissing matches. k

THX.

 

[Totalled]

hmm...
It seems that puting a size restriction is like telling people with certain rigs your not welcome here...

You're not welcome. You're too big for 95% of the trails on this side of the state. Go destroy another trail elsewhere. :flipoff:

Just because you can fit on a trail or even find the trail for that matter doesn't mean you should be on it...

I, on the other hand, can and should... I've lived here for 38 yrs... I've paid my share of taxes... And have just as much right as any other American to enjoy the outdoors...

This attitude that you have toward anyone in a fullsize rig is pretty childish...

Again, IQ test, son...

Guess you should have researched the rig requirements of the trails around here and gotten a smaller rig to build if you wanted to wheel here then... :looser:

 

[dirtygoat]

You're not welcome. You're too big for 95% of the trails on this side of the state. Go destroy another trail elsewhere and take the LWB toyota shitbags with you. :flipoff:



Guess you should have researched the rig requirements of the trails around here and gotten a smaller rig to build if you wanted to wheel here then... :looser:

All this coming from a guy in a bronco ii...:haha: :haha: :haha:

And what did the toyota guys do to you in the woods that made you so angry??? Is there something you want to talk about???:eeek:

 

[Brian H]

You're not welcome. You're too big for 95% of the trails on this side of the state. Go destroy another trail elsewhere and take the LWB toyota shitbags with you.

Guess you should have researched the rig requirements of the trails around here and gotten a smaller rig to build if you wanted to wheel here then...

Im guessing your next rig will be a jeep.:eeek:

 

[dirtygoat]

Edited the toyota thing I see...:looser:

Stand behind your words, little fella...:awesomework:

 

[Rich1]

All this coming from a guy in a bronco ii...:haha: :haha: :haha:

And what did the toyota guys do to you in the woods that made you so angry??? Is there something you want to talk about???:eeek:

Did you not hear me.........

Let's stop the pissing matches.

This meeting is in less than a few days time, we can get our opinions out on the table, and some how have understanding of EVERYONES expectations.

until then, though....

what about the positive sides of this meeting, can we inform the users that this SPECIFIC trail was built for SWB rigs, and it is being abused. the focus is to PROTECT the trail

to stop more abuse, before it gets shut down completely.

IF AT THE MEETING, we are able to voice opinions to open it up to fullsize rigs, and just create another tight and twisty for SWB - since the BUSY is already being ran by fullsizers now. this has been discussed. would this work, then a few years down the line - we can fight about the new tight and twisty trail being abused again.

*again like Pat stated;

Do some research on the area you plan to head out to to go offroading at, most of the few trails we have here are VERY CLEARLY spelled out as to what is allowed or not allowed, every trail has requirements / rules and is owned by the state. so the information is there...

here is a link; *just in case some do not know.

http://www.dnr.wa.gov/

http://www.dnr.wa.gov/base/recreation.html

http://www.pnw4wda.org/trails/washington/index.htm

and a nice copy & paste of ELBE info;

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The Busywild Trail is the most well known trail. Named after the Busy Wild Creek that runs through part of it, this trail lives up to its name also. People say it

 

[Brian H]

Edited the toyota thing I see...:looser:

Stand behind your words, little fella...:awesomework:

He isnt a little dude..........He could eat you for lunch.