I don't think you could tell the difference if I did take before and after pics...
It's been down a trail or two already...
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Help Support Hardline Crawlers :
Elbe Hills Focus Group
- Thread starter Gibby1
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I don't think you could tell the difference if I did take before and after pics...
It's been down a trail or two already...
CHOP SHOP
Well-Known Member
Rich is goin for an Oscar.:awesomework:
Rich, you pose too many questions and a stream of thought that goes all over the place.
I'll help with a couple of questions.
At the last focus group meeting the trail RESTRICTION on the busy was brought upon us unexpected. It was not listed on the agenda and we had not had a focus group meeting for 6 months.
The PNW is not the only voice but it has been the primary voice for quite some time. As such we have developed an long standing relationship with the various land managers.
I encourage everyone to show. I don't want to sound like I'm discouraging anyone to get involved but the mechanics of meetings like this are not geared towards 200 people trying to make their point heard. The PNW is doing it right. They get the news from their representative, take it back and discuss it amoung the members and go back to the next meeting with a single voice that represents the needs of the membership. They count on that representative to also be able to act on thier behalf, not just be a puppet. The position relies on the ability to make decisions on the fly that are in the best interest of the org and it's members. You can argue about whether or not the PNW is representative of the wheeling community. I don't think it is, but that's NOT the PNW's fault. That's because too many people choose NOT to join and get involved. The "new breed" if you will, of wheelers, is undrepresented because they can't be bothered to show up and more importantly get active.
I would like to see a lot of people show up and watch, but only a few people will get an opportunity to get actively involved. There's limited time at these meetings.
I'll help with a couple of questions.
At the last focus group meeting the trail RESTRICTION on the busy was brought upon us unexpected. It was not listed on the agenda and we had not had a focus group meeting for 6 months.
The PNW is not the only voice but it has been the primary voice for quite some time. As such we have developed an long standing relationship with the various land managers.
I encourage everyone to show. I don't want to sound like I'm discouraging anyone to get involved but the mechanics of meetings like this are not geared towards 200 people trying to make their point heard. The PNW is doing it right. They get the news from their representative, take it back and discuss it amoung the members and go back to the next meeting with a single voice that represents the needs of the membership. They count on that representative to also be able to act on thier behalf, not just be a puppet. The position relies on the ability to make decisions on the fly that are in the best interest of the org and it's members. You can argue about whether or not the PNW is representative of the wheeling community. I don't think it is, but that's NOT the PNW's fault. That's because too many people choose NOT to join and get involved. The "new breed" if you will, of wheelers, is undrepresented because they can't be bothered to show up and more importantly get active.
I would like to see a lot of people show up and watch, but only a few people will get an opportunity to get actively involved. There's limited time at these meetings.
:FIREdevil:
:stirpot:
Naw - i was really into this... and wanted to hear and be listened to at this meeting, but more or less the impression i got was something i don't think has set in yet.
i think whats best at this point is a private sheet of paper compiled by the DNR made available to residents / offroaders of washington state to check off their yes or no's on the questions. then send them back in. keep track of how many were sent out / made available then tally it all up and live with it.
I do not feel as if anyone showing up at this meeting now is worthy of anything other than to listen to the DNR and feeling less important. maybe thats why only 3 people showe up last time?
i do not know... but sounds like the oscar needs to go to the PNW4WDA
:stirpot:
Naw - i was really into this... and wanted to hear and be listened to at this meeting, but more or less the impression i got was something i don't think has set in yet.
i think whats best at this point is a private sheet of paper compiled by the DNR made available to residents / offroaders of washington state to check off their yes or no's on the questions. then send them back in. keep track of how many were sent out / made available then tally it all up and live with it.
I do not feel as if anyone showing up at this meeting now is worthy of anything other than to listen to the DNR and feeling less important. maybe thats why only 3 people showe up last time?
i do not know... but sounds like the oscar needs to go to the PNW4WDA
This was early in the day.
I didn't see the after pics, plus it was way past dark by the time they finished.
Rich, I think a LOT of people should go, BUT due to the meeting restrictions, not everyone is going to be able to be involved in an active discussion.
A lot of people showing up will show that we care what happens. THAT's a good thing. If we have an option to do a show of hands for votes on issues then being there is a good thing. Watching and learning is a GOOD thing. If everyone decides that they need to be heard and wants to argue, nothing will happen. That's the negative.
This is a personal impression. If people behave live at these meetings like they do on the web, it's going to be a disaster.
exactly...... this could bite us in the ass. or turn out very well.
but the impression i get, is unless your a PNW4WDA member / rep, your just along for the ride and to take notes. is this true? the way it was in the past.
i'am going to make a few calls to figure out just what in the hell is really going on - going on with Nancy / who's pushing who's buttons and figure out what is so tragic and needs attention. at this point it almost sounds like i said, i would hate to show up and not even be heard if there is only a handful of members, let alone someone else that might want to be heard - but is very negative towards the DNR.
i actually believe at this point, a questionaire would be best for all parties.
what if a large amount show up - and go shanghi towards DNR reps, yelling and fighting and no one agreeing on anything. it could get real ugly, i'll have 2 small kids with 4 & 9 and hate to put them in harms way.
maybe like JIM said.......... this meeting shopuld be postponed until all parties can figure out a better time for everyone to become aware and make plans to or how to voice thier say in the matter, without conflicts in person.
This was early in the day.
I didn't see the after pics, plus it was way past dark by the time they finished.
I love the stock front bumper...:awesomework: Does he rely on everyone else to pull him out???:eeek:
Gotta love that roll bar to...:rb:
38s and a winch???:eeek:
My mistake on the winch. He just finished with new tires, lockers and and crawler gears. I thought he had winch on that. Obiously not...
I believe he only got winched a couple of times but that might have a little to do with why he got so beat up LOL!
38's yes, winch no, he was tugged through most of the mud holes, and the factory bumper is no longer stock :haha: He just got this rig and was unable to mount his winch in time for this run, and Gibby is right, there wasn't a straight panel left after one pass on the Busy.
I doubt a blazer could make it past the first obstacle, I run a TJ and about ripped my top off twice.
it appears some have been checking out this thread
683 views thus far.........
So whats the word...
Should people show up and attend this meeting or is a PNW4WDA member / rep trying to get this postponed for a later date to have a discussion among the 5,000 members?
I'am curious to attend, even if it means we don't get a chance to speak on the issues they toss out. *(don't feel it's right though.) but would like to hear the DNR and what they have to say concerning Elbe.
Whats the word on this meeting,:corn: Is it still on now?
683 views thus far.........
So whats the word...
Should people show up and attend this meeting or is a PNW4WDA member / rep trying to get this postponed for a later date to have a discussion among the 5,000 members?
I'am curious to attend, even if it means we don't get a chance to speak on the issues they toss out. *(don't feel it's right though.) but would like to hear the DNR and what they have to say concerning Elbe.
Whats the word on this meeting,:corn: Is it still on now?
CHOP SHOP
Well-Known Member
Rich, you sure type alot for someone who is willing to roll over so quickly.
I dont need jeep racers to speak for me. I have my own mouth.
better yet lets all send suggestion to the PNW and let them do whats right. fat chance.:fawkdancesmiley:
I honestly dont think there will be any big fiasco at the meeting. but what do I know.
rich you keep acting like its going to be a DONT TASE ME BRO episode.
Gibby has a Toyota, and doesn't race and I don't think Steve races, matter of fact, I don't think any of the PNW Elbe Reps have ever been into racing.
Tugged???:eeek: Just got this rig???:eeek: What is he doing on the busy then???:eeek:
Many a blazer has done the busy... Are you new??? And I don't have a top, so no worries...
:haha: :haha: :haha: You're funny
:haha:
I'am not rolling over....... I thought i heard - a postponement mentioned.
as the only voice really heard or listened to was the PNW4WDA's, if this is the actual case, then we really do need to be organized and get opinions from all users to submit. it's not right if we show up... and nobody gives us a chance to REBUTTAL or speak our minds on this proposed set of ideas or restrictions being tossed around. if only the PNW4WDA is reckonized, then we really do need change. i do not think that is the way it is... but they do have some clout and obviously will be heard over the regular mmbers attending.
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If we could organize everyones opinion on this, we'd gain ground for discussions quickly, but it appears to be;
hey everyone... show up to hear the DNR impose restrictions on us. and not have a chance to speak out against them. i'am trying to hear from others how things have played out in the past. if this is indeed the case, where only the pnw4wda is heard, i'am not willing to go. i can just hear it from them on what the out come was or will be.
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I think the DNR should make a little more effort and time for discussions among the users of this trail. it shouldn't come off as a rush or push event. there are alot of users, but again... where are they?
will they show up and attend this meeting... or have they just givin up.
:corn: I'am all game to show up, but not looking forward to just sitting there and hearing someone tell us how it's going to be, without our voice heard in the matter. it should be a JOINT effort among each party to find a resolution to fix and correct the problem - *(IF THERE IS EVEN A PROBLEM!)
Funny how??? Do I amuse you??? Funny like a clown???
Did you have to tug your TJ all the way threw???
Going wheeling is alot different than going winching...:masturbanana[1]:
CHOP SHOP
Well-Known Member
every tripower I have is full of JEEP RACING. not rocks not trail rides. I have even had my truck in the tripower twice. nothing for me there. I dont know all about the PNW. I have been around wheeling along time (not 2 or 3 years) and your right I dont know **** about the PNW.
I dont want to join. out of all the people I know, not the people here, not your buddies, not gibby, not steve. the only folks I know in the PNW are jeep racers. and most jeep racers that do have a wheeler, it is second priority to thier race jeep. no points for trail riding! and most racers wheelers are mildly built rigs (jeeps on 33s or 35s).
I have heard gibby state before he hasnt got the support the racers get from the PNW. steve has also stated he did not get the support either and steped down at elbe. now gibby wants to do the same.
explain to me where the PNW gets it funds?
if the PNW works for you and pokey thats great. you and pokey are JEEP owners and I might say you both wheel the average jeep I was refering to.(mildly built jeep on 33s or 35s).
no one here wheelin a buggy, toyota, scout, ford, chev, dodge, or sami etc has tried to spread to PNW goodness like you two, why is that?
PNW seems to always be there for the EVENTS not the wheelers.:booo:
Funny how??? Do I amuse you??? Funny like a clown???
Did you have to tug your TJ all the way threw???
Going wheeling is alot different than going winching...:masturbanana[1]:
Guys...... someone asked my opinion on where i stand on or as far as restrictions / ideas go, how about you all?
WHERE OR WHAT IS YOUR STAND / IDEA?
Is anything really needed at all... should there be a limit or restriction or measure put in place for any specific trail at elbe?
whats your take on all this...
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