Elbe Hills Rock Crawl - help needed

[Gibby1]

http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/zip/451820408.html

If there's a truck and loader, these might help....?

I just emailed the guy and said I'd take them. Now we just need to find someone to load them up and haul them to Elbe!!!!! We have our first load or two.

Anyone have access to an excavator in the area that can load these into a dumptruck. Oh yeah, then we need the dumptruck. He says that he's also got a couple pickup truck loads of 2-3 man rocks. These are still a good size to use and we can haul them in a few pickups.

I can make arrangements to have them STORED in the pit at the end of the 9 road.

 

[Totalled]

Brian, if you want to come to the PNW4WDA Region 2 meeting thursday, we can talk with Nancy as she's going to be there as a guest. Usually a couple of the Quadrapaws show up. The meeting's at the Tumwater Bar and Grill in Olympia. It's open to anyone, PNW4WDA member or not.

Well slap my ass and call me Sally! What time?

 

[Gibby1]

Well slap my ass and call me Sally! What time?

OK, Sally but you can slap yourself!!!!
7pm Thursday night at the Tumwater Bar and Grill in Olympia.

She's coming to catch up, not speaking but will be available if anyone one questions for her.

We are going to talk about setting a date for the next focus group meeting while she's there.

 

[Gibby1]

Here's what we just landed!

"About 4-5 maybe 6 Dump truck loads if you don't have enough I have a couple more that's half buried. "

We need a truck or two to haul and good size excavator. He said that one of the rocks was so big that he could barely move it with his John Deere 450!

 

[Totalled]

The Tumwater bar and grill is in Tumwater valley...

:silly15:

 

[rooinater]

Here's what we just landed!

"About 4-5 maybe 6 Dump truck loads if you don't have enough I have a couple more that's half buried. "

We need a truck or two to haul and good size excavator. He said that one of the rocks was so big that he could barely move it with his John Deere 450!

that's good news!

 

[Gibby1]

Rock pics

Here are some pics that he had of the some of the rocks that he needs removed.

These should make a VERY good start espcially when they're on a hill climb.

 

[hwcurtice]

Here are some pics that he had of the some of the rocks that he needs removed.

These should make a VERY good start espcially when they're on a hill climb.

Ya know, because I may have plans for Saturday, I can probably come down, with some younger help (Son), after church on Sunday, and move some of the smaller rocks. I just need to know where and when. Mostly because I'm sure it'll take more than three people to pick up the rocks, and I'll need directions to the rocks and to the storage site.

BTW, Glad you could get in touch with him.

 

[Gibby1]

Ya know, because I may have plans for Saturday, I can probably come down, with some younger help (Son), after church on Sunday, and move some of the smaller rocks. I just need to know where and when. Mostly because I'm sure it'll take more than three people to pick up the rocks, and I'll need directions to the rocks and to the storage site.

BTW, Glad you could get in touch with him.

I'll PM you with the contact info. The guy says that he's in no hurry to get rid of them and he's got our names on them. It would be better if we had a small tractor to pick up the rocks and load them into the bed of a truck or trailer. If you're driving all the way down from Sultan on a Sunday after Church, it'll be a LONG day.

I don't get out of church until about 2 myself and my wife always has my Sunday afternoons pretty busy...

If you want to make the trip on Sunday, I'll get the contact info for you otherwise I'd we can wait until we have a work party all together.

 

[Brian H]

I'll PM you with the contact info. The guy says that he's in no hurry to get rid of them and he's got our names on them. It would be better if we had a small tractor to pick up the rocks and load them into the bed of a truck or trailer. If you're driving all the way down from Sultan on a Sunday after Church, it'll be a LONG day.

I don't get out of church until about 2 myself and my wife always has my Sunday afternoons pretty busy...

If you want to make the trip on Sunday, I'll get the contact info for you otherwise I'd we can wait until we have a work party all together.

I think it would be best to set a date for this.

 

[hwcurtice]

I think the date setting would be best. I didn't realize that they guy had put your name on them. :awesomework:

Having dealt with craigslist people before, it always seems they want the free stuff gone ASAP.

Give me a date. I'll drag the kid down and we'll make it a day of meeting new people and working out.

 

[Rock_Crusher]

Gibby, *i wanted to bite my lip on this one, but....

what are your limits, redtape on this project?

years have gone by, with all the other improvements always predeeding what "we" the offroaders more or less wanted, TRAIL improvements like this proposal...

You & others should give a little concern to what Jim mentioned, it could very well be why NO one has gone forward with this. i myself say, let Robin loose in there for the day, invite a few others like him, make solid openings / exits... that CLEARLY require the right set up rigs to enter the trail.

if you bring in materials, *(in the fashion your describing) will this open up a pandoras box for closures / lawsuits? i doubt it, but will it?

as far as tire restrictions, yup... there coming! but worry about that later.

can you clearify, what - documents - go aheads you have, that state you can bring in this amount and size and re-structuring of the trail into a 5+ trail?

i think it would be the greatest, but it could be just as good with a go ahead to just let some guys get in there with a kabota / buggy and re-design it natually speaking. and make some good placements of the openings to it. the rest will take shape, and little stuff / cost wise and allowable / doable, can be worked into the scene as it developes.

if you got the go ahead, then by all means - BALLS TO THE WALLS.

just think a few guys could rip a new one in there without the hassle up front, and GRADUALLY get in there and add some obstacles along the way. kinda what i'am saying is if we go to the table and say;

we'd like to paint the white house pink, versus... we'd like to change the colors of the whitehouse. maybe YOU can pull this off, i know in the past alot has happened, but it always seemed to be upkeeping or replacements, campground inhancements or parking. this is what i suggested yrs ago... and there was funding then. only it went other places. i'm all for helping in anyway i can, but i got kids mon-friday, and cash flow is very low now. but i'm sure i can do something to help this time if you got the GO-AHEAD,

ARE KIDS WELCOMED AT THIS MEETING, in TUMWATER?

 

[Tech Tim]

Great news and thanks for all the hard work getting this rolling. Def post up any work party dates, we'll try to get a few of our guys out there to help.


Tire size restrictions are very interesting, does anyone know approx size they are discussing?

 

[Gibby1]

I have the OK from the DNR rep to bring in rock for a rock crawl at the end of the 9 road but we can't use the current M&O budget money to do so as it falls out of the scope of the budget.

The DNR are the people who gave me the go-ahead. While the actual scope of the trail project is not delineated. Nancy has been shown pictures of what we're looking to do and why we're looking to do it. By providing alternate hard core opportunities at Elbe Hills we will take the stress off the busywild. Additionally, the Rainier Vista trail is not only under used, it was almost completely unused. That being said, converting this to a harder trail is not adversely affecting the use of other users because no one was using it...

You'll have to understand that the DNR has had a real turn around in it's approach to the motorized recreation on their land.

I'm sure we'll hit a few snags along the way that we'll have to work through and around.

Even if we do we'll be able to make the Rainier Vista trail way more interesting than it is now.

There will be a lot of of reworking the trail as you discussed. Jaydog can to wonders with an excavator and if you've seen his work, you'll know what I mean. The rocks will be to provide additional "texture" to the trail.

Children are welcome at the PNW4WDA meetings. We're typically done around 9:30. This meeting is not about Elbe Hills but Nancy is going to be there just to stay in touch. We will be setting up a focus group meeting in the near future which will be the appropriate time to discuss Elbe specific questions.

We don't want to scare Nancy! She's working with us and it's taken a while for me to get to this point. We have a fair bit of negotiating still to do on these changes and it's a game of give and take.

 

[Gibby1]

Great news and thanks for all the hard work getting this rolling. Def post up any work party dates, we'll try to get a few of our guys out there to help.


Tire size restrictions are very interesting, does anyone know approx size they are discussing?

Thanks Tim. I will see if I can do some research, here's what I know to date. A few months back, the Washington State Director brought this to the attention of the various Region Directors and to the membership at the meetings. The jist of the story is that the USFS has enacted a national plan that may have tire restrictions and the USFS is likely to come to the PNW4WDA for suggestions about how to handle this in our area. While the PNW4WDA doesn't support tire size restrictions it is likely that they are going to have to make recommendations to the USFS. This has been put out to the membership for comment only at this point. To MY knowledge nothing formal has been requested or address for the Washington State area. However, the scoop we go is that in other states the rules have come into effect, but I couldn't tell you where.

 

[Rock_Crusher]

Even if we do we'll be able to make the Rainier Vista trail way more interesting than it is now.

There will be a lot of of reworking the trail as you discussed. Jaydog can to wonders with an excavator and if you've seen his work, you'll know what I mean. The rocks will be to provide additional "texture" to the trail.

Children are welcome at the PNW4WDA meetings. We're typically done around 9:30. This meeting is not about Elbe Hills but Nancy is going to be there just to stay in touch. We will be setting up a focus group meeting in the near future which will be the appropriate time to discuss Elbe specific questions.

We don't want to scare Nancy! She's working with us and it's taken a while for me to get to this point. We have a fair bit of negotiating still to do on these changes and it's a game of give and take.

thats kinda what i was saying, it's better to get in there and re-work that trail and then bring in enhancements as it developes. it's a matter of fact for us, to use the idea that the trail is not being used, due to the eaze of it. and that it needs a little more difficulty or better obstacles.

why can't we - god forbid - i suggest this;

impose a volunteer fee fundraiser for everyone that uses Elbe, have the money sent in, either to you or someone set up to recieve it. i think alot would be willing to donate, if only a few bucks - it would all help. right?

 

[Gibby1]

The Rule

I haven't read the ENTIRE rule but I think I found it.

I don't see it specifically giving any sort of tire size restriction here but if I recall from the discussions I've heard, is that the rules leaves issues like tires size open to interpretation as well as other issues that include vehicle width. There's a pretty good review of this on the United Four Wheel Drive Association Website.

http://www.ufwda.org/landuse/ohvrule/USFS_Final_Rule.pdf

Legislators like to get rules through by leaving this open ended and then it's the implementation of the rule that get's sticky and of concern.

 

[Gibby1]

thats kinda what i was saying, it's better to get in there and re-work that trail and then bring in enhancements as it developes. it's a matter of fact for us, to use the idea that the trail is not being used, due to the eaze of it. and that it needs a little more difficulty or better obstacles.

why can't we - god forbid - i suggest this;

impose a volunteer fee fundraiser for everyone that uses Elbe, have the money sent in, either to you or someone set up to recieve it. i think alot would be willing to donate, if only a few bucks - it would all help. right?

DNR rules actually forbid any sort of user fee but yes we could setup on somone to handle donations which is why I actually started this thread, asking for that very thing. Not the donations per say at this point, but rather to find someone willing to assist in fund raising for the shortfall of money between what we'd like to see done and what money the DNR is willing to help us out with. There are lots of options here but the big key is still volunteers. We need volunteers at our work parties as this is how we raise money for the grants that we get. Each hour a volunteer works is worth X dollars of grant money (rather simplified but you get the point).

 

[Rock_Crusher]

We need volunteers at our work parties as this is how we raise money for the grants that we get. Each hour a volunteer works is worth X dollars of grant money (rather simplified but you get the point).

You'd think... with actually only 2 areas for us in this location - tacoma / olympia - puyallup / etc... we could get all the local users / clubs to all step up this 1 time, to really show and put forth a effort and get a new section of trail re-done and made better.

you figure out the dates, and requirements and everyone can spread the word around and figure out how to make this happen. manhours and cash donations for whats needed / allowed.

and i'll try to be there with a shovel to work as well. it's just hard on us, we don't have babysitters / grandparents to watch our kids. 9yrs ago, there were no kids, it's cold up there right now. so not sure what i could do, but i can always find a way to donate some cash or put together something to help out.

just post up the dates, so i can forward it to others as well. thx. Gibby.

 

[rooinater]

just an idea for the donations part. you could have a paypal account setup and someone manage the books. and people can donate via paypal also, along with any other fundraisers. you might be able to get a wider range of people to donate that way. i've seen it done, it's how one of the other boards i frequent stays up and running.