We had a entire park full of narrow trails and look what happened to those:booo::booo::booo::haha:
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Help Support Hardline Crawlers :
Elbe Rock crawl and Rainier Vista
- Thread starter Gibby1
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We had a entire park full of narrow trails and look what happened to those:booo::booo::booo::haha:
dirk
Well-Known Member
I know, but back then that was what folks drove...so it was great to have all the trails restricted this way. Fast forward a few years...now the rigs folks drive are a varied in length, width & capability. It makes sense that ALL the trails are no longer ALL narrow...I understand why the folks that built the trails are upset. I think that SOME of the trails should have stayed narrow, but how do you enforce that with the current system?
Lucas
Active Member
I think it should be on the more difficult side. The whole point is to take some of the pressure off of the Busywild. The only way that will happen is to make the trail more challenging then the busywild. If its not, those that run the busy will keep doing so. There are plenty of people out there with rigs capable, or at least like the winchfest thing, and/or are up for a challenge. If there wasnt, they wouldnt be worried about the traffic on the busywild.
Now, i see the point of loosing a trail for "everybody", but the only way to keep people off the busy to to make something better. A trail with a couple hard spots with bypasses just wont do. You would loose what, a quarter mile of "everbody" trail. Those people that couldnt make the new trail might even get more excitement walking up that trail watching the more capable rigs in action.
i guess in my eyes, unless its more on the exteme side, its pretty much a waste of time and money. Give people a challenge, Lets get some stories from elbe other then big mud holes. Just my two cents.
Now, i see the point of loosing a trail for "everybody", but the only way to keep people off the busy to to make something better. A trail with a couple hard spots with bypasses just wont do. You would loose what, a quarter mile of "everbody" trail. Those people that couldnt make the new trail might even get more excitement walking up that trail watching the more capable rigs in action.
i guess in my eyes, unless its more on the exteme side, its pretty much a waste of time and money. Give people a challenge, Lets get some stories from elbe other then big mud holes. Just my two cents.
Elbe Hills is allowed 13 miles of trails, right now there is about 8.5 miles. I have been asking Nancy about opening up old trails and logging roads at every focus group meeting I have been to. At the last work party there was over 100 people helping out. Hopefully she will see there are people willing to volunteer their time and energy to make the trail system better.
:awesomework:
:awesomework:
Did you get that mapped out and documented ? Thats the kind of information we need to be able to get more trail miles on the ground.
Fullywrecked
Well-Known Member
I hope the goal would be to have something like this...
I can see this taking some pressure off of the Busywild trail...the average prepared wheeler should be able to attempt the hill, but might need to pull cable to get to the top. :beer:
I was hoping for something a little more challenging.:jerkit::screwdog:
dirk
Well-Known Member
Do you still wheel? :haha:
This trail is being designed to be navigable by vehicles with the recommended equipment posted on the trail sign.
The recommended equipment on this trail will be agressive 36" offroad trires, dual lockers, which and body armor.
It was determined a couple of years ago when the plan was started, that the mix of trails at Elbe needed to change because there is only one hard trail and that trail is getting overused as a result. The Rainier Vista was chosen because virtually no one was using it. It was not being used because there was nothing exciting or interesting about the trail
The trail is not going to remain an easy trail with hard line options. There will be a gatekeeper obstacle built. If you can navigate the obstacle, you can navigate the trail.
The rock crawl area at the end of the 9 road will ostensibly be an extension of the Rainier Vista.
The recommended equipment on this trail will be agressive 36" offroad trires, dual lockers, which and body armor.
It was determined a couple of years ago when the plan was started, that the mix of trails at Elbe needed to change because there is only one hard trail and that trail is getting overused as a result. The Rainier Vista was chosen because virtually no one was using it. It was not being used because there was nothing exciting or interesting about the trail
The trail is not going to remain an easy trail with hard line options. There will be a gatekeeper obstacle built. If you can navigate the obstacle, you can navigate the trail.
The rock crawl area at the end of the 9 road will ostensibly be an extension of the Rainier Vista.
I have (you probably do as well Pokey) old maps and guides for the area that have the mileage listed. These maps don't include the recent busywild re-route that happened about 5 years ago - but it's my understanding that we lost mileage with that. It also doesn't include a couple of abandonded roads that are now being converted into trails. i.e. the "inner Alder Loop", the access partway through the "easywild", the access from the 9 road to the Swamp Trail. I have however started mapping. The Rainier Vista and Gotcha are the same lengths as indicated on the old maps.
I hope to have all trails GPS mapped and measured this summer so that we'll have a GPS map that can be downloaded for users and an accurate mileage total.
The Rainier Vista has been designated to be in the same difficulty range as the busywild. The same vehicle recommendations have been established and you'll see that on the sign at the trail head.
We we waiting for the rocks to arrive and for conditions to improve to being the work. That work will be starting very shortly.
We can expect this to be very much like the new rock hill climbs at Tahuya in terms of difficulty. There are no "RESTRICTIONS" on the trail, only vehicle recommendations.
We we waiting for the rocks to arrive and for conditions to improve to being the work. That work will be starting very shortly.
We can expect this to be very much like the new rock hill climbs at Tahuya in terms of difficulty. There are no "RESTRICTIONS" on the trail, only vehicle recommendations.
I'd like to see a new SWB, narrow trail system built if we have mileage available to use. I'd like to see an appropriate gatekeeper built so that the trail can maintain it's character.
The park's trail mix is not lacking another easy or moderate trail. It's lacking a difficult trail and anything to do with rocks, so we're solving that. It's also lacking a SWB, narrow trail and I think it would be perfectly appropriate to built a trail (If we're can) built to accomodate these these specific vehicle needs as well.
ain'tstuckjustresting
RIP Mister 12/5/12
:awesomework: Thanks for the hard work Gibby! The plan sounds pretty good and you'll never please everyone. Mabey this trail will take some pressure off the easier trails and keep them from being torn up too. This will ultimately make more of the current trails more usable for stock rigs..........
Can't wait to break my toy on the new Vista crawl!
Can't wait to break my toy on the new Vista crawl!
Its funny in a way that you say this. We already had several great SWB trails at Elbe. If only the bigger rigs would have followed your advice here then there wouldnt be a "need" to build narrow tech. trails "again". :awesomework:
CHOP SHOP
Well-Known Member
jim why do you care? You dont even wheel. You whine more than you wheel.
Maybe we can build an acoustically sheilded trail for you to run. Then it would be so quiet in the woods you would be able to hear youself whine about days past. Seems your the only one that listens to what you whine about.
Ps go ahead and mod this any way you see fit, you always do when someone posts something you dont like.
Just my .02:corn:
CHOP SHOP
Well-Known Member
Good work gibby/faithwheelers. I like playing at the pit, now it will be a sweet trail into it!
I cant wait. I can offer up any welding, hauling, etc, that I can. Just let me know.:awesomework:
The future looks bright!:bling:
I cant wait. I can offer up any welding, hauling, etc, that I can. Just let me know.:awesomework:
The future looks bright!:bling:
While I would like to see more technical stuff at elbe, I agree with pokey that the "hardcore" stuff should be new build, not taking away from existing trails. I'm not saying the rainier vista shouldn't become a rockcrawl/ busy relief, just that if you change a trail from easy to hard status, you're still going to get underbuilt rigs tearing it up. Whereas, if there's multiple choice, (the mainline is a good example) then underbuilt rigs would be less likely to a) tear up the harder obstacles, and b) make multiple illegal bypasses if there's already a legal bypass there.
But like I said, I think the changes to the rainier vista will be good. But I also think if some of the obstacles on the other trails were "enhanced" with a few choice rocks or stumps, or a few added, but also given a legal bypass, there would be a little more diversity in the trails out there.
And let me know when the work starts, I'll be there. :awesomework:
But like I said, I think the changes to the rainier vista will be good. But I also think if some of the obstacles on the other trails were "enhanced" with a few choice rocks or stumps, or a few added, but also given a legal bypass, there would be a little more diversity in the trails out there.
And let me know when the work starts, I'll be there. :awesomework:
jim why do you care? You dont even wheel. You whine more than you wheel.
Maybe we can build an acoustically sheilded trail for you to run. Then it would be so quiet in the woods you would be able to hear youself whine about days past. Seems your the only one that listens to what you whine about.
Ps go ahead and mod this any way you see fit, you always do when someone posts something you dont like.
Just my .02:corn:
Not only wont I delete it but I am qouting your bullshit before you delete it so everyone can see your dumbass comments
You should be damn glad that I whine if it wasnt for whiners like myself you would be stuck in places like your private little mudholes. As far as me not wheeling your so full of it your eyes are brown. I have wheeled in 5 differant states and 3 countrys while you were playing in your mudholes.
Not all of us just take whatever crap we have laying about and throw together a rig that needs fixing everytime it starts. I am taking my time on my rig and building it properly and safely so as to not be "that guy". And BTW take a moment to look at the posts since my post about this and you will see that that I am not alone in thinking this way (shared trails)
It's not funny or strange that I say this. I have believed and stated this for a while. I believe an ORV park should be for everyone, but that not every TRAIL should be for everyone. The mix of trails should allow everyone to use the resources. "SHARED" trails are an ideal, but not always practical given the geography and limits of trail corridors. We need to take the concept of shared "RESOURCES" by having trails with different characteristics that are allowed to maintain those characteristics, through appropriate design, maintainance and user traffic. Easy trails should be maintained as easy trails. Deteriorations in those trails should be fixed to maintain their characteristic. Hard trails should not be made easy so that everyone can run them. Vehicles should run trails for which they are suited and should not destroy or damage trails by running those for which the are not suited.
The bypass for the Rainier Vista, is going to be the 9 road....
The reason for chossing the Rainier Vista for this project is partially because it had a hill climb built into it by mostly, because no one was using it. It was a wasted trail for the majority of people using that area. Changing this one, short, easy trail, to a hard core trail, is not going to stop anyone from enjoying the park. With some of the new trail that's being added - mostly decommissioned roads, we are already replacing this with other easy trail mileage.
Will there be some bypasses - if the trail corridor allows so sure. But, not so that the trail is negotiable by anyone and everyone. Will there be options for various line, some harder than other? We sure hope so, but again, a stockish vehicle will have no business being on the trail and will likely suffer signifcant damage if it does.
I am a firm believer and would stand strong that we make (given the opportunity) an new SWB narror trail with restrictions (via recommended vehicle width and a gatekeeper) so that the character of the trail can be retained over a long period of time.
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I'll put a caveat in here. If there's a way to make the Rainier Vista usable by MOST vehicles yet allow some extreme challenge sections, that is completely desireable outcome. Looking at the trail, I think that will be very difficult to do without the option of widening the corridor to allow multiple lines of travel yet not increasing the trail mileage.
And there we are were argueing over agreeing again. I am not saying that the trail should be built for everyone just that turning it into a hardcore buggy type rig only trail is not in the best interest either.
