Endurance Race - Southeast

[onetoncrawler]

Like I said, it still takes organization and bringing it all together. Standard set of rules and cooperation with the park owners is required. I have been to most parks in AL and they all have the capability to host an event, but it also requires a lot of other stuff from the landowners/volunteers like parking accomidations, trail cutting, course marking, volunteers, spectator access, etc.

Hardline Crawlers as a club was discussing the possibility of hosting an event for all park owners to come and get on the same page about event dates and rides, so as to not compete with each other and end up having to close parks. If there is enought interest in this maybe we can talk about this topic as well. Just an idea.

I would personally like to compete in something like this, but don't necessarily want to promote it. There is a fine line between what is doable from a series perspective and what is not. Generally 4-5 events is a good number, but many series try to throw in 8-10 events and they end up being poorly attended.

i agree , thats why i was pushing for ECORS so much because they already have their sh!t together and could basically work the details with the landowner/parks.

if there is enough intrest to have a series soley in the AL/TN area then maybe we could work together with ECORS or something similar and create another branch? Use the same rules/points system then have a championship at the end of the year with the top drivers from each division

i would love to get involved and help organize something like this but not to the point that i couldn't race in them laughing1

 

[BamaTJ]

I totally agree man, I want to race and not promote!

 

[BustedKnucklefilms]

I like the idea of an Bama extreme endurance Racing .....BEER

Id help promote it!

 

[sharpshooter]

Lets get some some of the park owners together and see what we could come up with,I have put alot of off road events together ranging from sxs races,buggy hill climbs,mudboggs with great turnouts.The main thing I found was you need good payouts to get alot of racers,if the racers come, spectators will follow.With all the park websites and forums we could really promote a good Alabama series with out costing alot for advertising,it all starts with some willing park owners and a few people willing to step forward and start putting it together.I would like to help see something like this happen,but it takes alot of workers to put something like this on.

 

[sharpshooter]

I"ll go ahead be the first to get this debate started,here is some food for thought
1.How many parks would payback 100% of entry fees and keep all the gate and concessions for the park
2.What about all parks involved buy into the series at $500 dollars(just a figure)to go towards the overall points champions at the end
3.Racers get into all events at no charge,just thier entry fee for the race
4.Rules committee puts together a set of rules,or adopts some thats already working for a series,that way people can run different series without changing equipment
5.Everybody think of all your connections and get out and get some sponsors,big or small
6.Have early entry fees available,and late fees the day of event,just more money for the pot
7.KEEP ENTRY FEES AFFORDABLE,I travelled to several different events this year that big entry fees,but with little return
8.Full blown racers pay more in entry fees,run harder courses and have bigger paybacks,after that it breaks down according to classes
9.The bigger the payouts the more racers will travel,more racers more spectators
These are just some things to get people thinking, a starting point, ok I started it so lets here some other input and ideas

 

[RCMafia79]

I"ll go ahead be the first to get this debate started,here is some food for thought
1.How many parks would payback 100% of entry fees and keep all the gate and concessions for the park
2.What about all parks involved buy into the series at $500 dollars(just a figure)to go towards the overall points champions at the end
3.Racers get into all events at no charge,just thier entry fee for the race
4.Rules committee puts together a set of rules,or adopts some thats already working for a series,that way people can run different series without changing equipment
5.Everybody think of all your connections and get out and get some sponsors,big or small
6.Have early entry fees available,and late fees the day of event,just more money for the pot
7.KEEP ENTRY FEES AFFORDABLE,I travelled to several different events this year that big entry fees,but with little return
8.Full blown racers pay more in entry fees,run harder courses and have bigger paybacks,after that it breaks down according to classes
9.The bigger the payouts the more racers will travel,more racers more spectators
These are just some things to get people thinking, a starting point, ok I started it so lets here some other input and ideas

sponors for an event like this would help with prize money and let everyone involved make a little something. witha all the shops in al. and tenn surely we could get some good sponsors

 

[GreatAmericanPark]

The Great American Park in Auburn, AL would definitely be interested in participating in a joint event like this. Sounds like a great idea, and we would love to be a part of it.

 

[sharpshooter]

Now will be the time to do something,Ive heard that xrra may not run next year ,If we got together with ecors adopt there rules,that way racers could race more without changing there rigs.This could be as big as we wanted to be

 

[sharpshooter]

I say we get 4 parks together thats willing to do what it takes to put one of these together,and get the ball rolling,it could be put together by late spring.maybe run a 4 race schedule with a 5th race at a different park for the finals

 

[onetoncrawler]

i think thats a good idea . i like the idea of adapting the same rules for sure. i can meet ECORS rules but can't meet Ultra 4 rules for sure (and dont want to spend the money to meet them any time soon)

not sure about the full racers having a different class than the unlimited class- i dont know if you would have enough participants...i dont think you will get a lot of big names running the event anyways until you make one of the events a qualifier for KOH

right now is definitely the time to plan the events and get rules/memberships/etc. into place so that by the spring we could be racing

 

[draggbody]

my input is not to be negative, but to be realistic... i put on two rock rallys, the first there was a huge turnout, 44 rigs, the amount of time invested kicked my ass and i wasnt going to do another, everyone begged me to do one the following year and against my better judgement i did... 15 people showed up... it was really disappointing, and there was still the same amount of work involved... because of this, i wont do another one, i dont care if KOH wanted it to be the east coast version of there race, the hassle and money invested isnt worth it...

with all of that said, i think people should be realistic... most of us have trail rigs, not racers, so that will need to be addressed with any kind of rules... safety MUST be the number one concern... another consideration is the track layout... you must go around an entire park w/o crossing the same path twice... we managed 8 miles and 2 laps at the first RR at morris mtn and frankly it whipped everyones ass... peoples rigs just couldnt hold up... the course wasnt to long, just not what people expected, most didnt make one lap, but allie and i finished to put things in perspective... another thing is alternate routes... just think about someone breaking a knuckle and it being impossible for them to get off the course... if it bottle necks down to a particular obstacle, how are you going to keep traffic moving... you gotta get spectators to various areas safely, w/o them you are guaranteed to lose money, so you have to weigh that out as well...

i would definitely want to race, i like going fast... i wouldnt mind sitting in on planning stages to offer my real world experience at races like this... there are just alot of things to consider to have a successful race...

 

[BustedKnucklefilms]

I think a SXS class is a must! :****:

 

[BamaTJ]

i think thats a good idea . i like the idea of adapting the same rules for sure. i can meet ECORS rules but can't meet Ultra 4 rules for sure (and dont want to spend the money to meet them any time soon)

not sure about the full racers having a different class than the unlimited class- i dont know if you would have enough participants...i dont think you will get a lot of big names running the event anyways until you make one of the events a qualifier for KOH

right now is definitely the time to plan the events and get rules/memberships/etc. into place so that by the spring we could be racing

I pretty much agree with everyting you said and I sent and emial to the ECORS guy yesterday with a link to this thread. Definately stay away from Ultra4 rules because you will have no racers, they are just too damn stringent and expensive to meet. ECORS rules are simple and basic, about what you need. The one thing I don't think you need to go overboard on is classes. Should be pretty simple with maybe a buggy class and a regular class, maybe a stock class thrown in. Having too many classes means there is not as much competition in the classes and that makes it less fun.

I have also heard that XRRA will not be racing anymore and WEROCK cant be far behind it. Endurance type racing is the ticket these days, you get way more seat time and the ability to go fast, that is why it is so popular. If you got enough participants to do a final that was a KOH qualifier like Harlan last year that would be a huge bonus. Those spots are expensive to buy but you end up with a good turnout and don't do a full payout to get your money back as a promoter.

 

[tonyt]

whether you like the KOH rules are not, most of them are there for a reason from what I see, and that is safety.

yeah, the ECORS rules are easier, heck I dont think they even require window nets. not exactly sure "easier" is the way to go with the rules. I'd say bottom line has to be safety. trying to get more rigs in with less rules sounds like a recipe to get people seriously hurt in a hurry.



these "endurance" races sound cool, but they are HELL on rigs. especially if they aren't purpose built racers. ****, they are hell on the purpose built racers. just look at the attrition rate for any of the "endurance" races. 5 out of 20 or more rigs finishing gets kinda old real fast.

I don't know how long folks are gonna continue to want to run race after race, where there is 70+ percent DNF. especially when you consider the time, money, and effort that goes into getting a rig ready to compete.




just my .00002 cents worth from my VERY limited experience with this stuff.

 

[InDaShop]

Look at the KOH course almost every hard trail was a DOWN trail they werent going up them. Thats how you cut out bottlenecks.
And dont put the first place for a bottleneck in the first miles off a startline.

Window nets, seatbelts, helmets. Reasonable firewalls. If you arent requiring a bladder cell, just make a firesuit rule, and up the minimum size of the extinguishers on board and where they are attached.

Endurance is clearly where its all. And its hard to make a car live. Clearly people are either racing with junk, or are overdriving their cars.

 

[onetoncrawler]

i see what your saying Tony , if you throw in very difficult obstacles in the middle of a go fast race your going to get carnage. it is offroad though so you dont want the course to be a dirt track either. I believe a longer course that is "too easy" would be more fun than a short course full of rough stuff where you are forced to winch or risk breaking. you gotta remember though, the ECORS guys have a good standing of stock class competitors... that says a lot about rigs holding up to this kind of race

 

[onetoncrawler]

Look at the KOH course almost every hard trail was a DOWN trail they werent going up them. Thats how you cut out bottlenecks.
And dont put the first place for a bottleneck in the first miles off a startline.

Window nets, seatbelts, helmets. Reasonable firewalls. If you arent requiring a bladder cell, just make a firesuit rule, and up the minimum size of the extinguishers on board and where they are attached.

Endurance is clearly where its all. And its hard to make a car live. [size=10pt]Clearly people are either racing with junk, or are overdriving their cars[/size].

i agree with that, i believe window nets are a good idea, i also believe fire suits are a good idea...even for the smaller classes

 

[BamaTJ]

Yeah I think the Rock Ralley course at MMORV is a good example of a fun course that is not insanely hard. I know at SMORR attration rate was less than about 40%, but I heard Harlan was really hard on cars thus the high attrition rate. Also a lot is driver and knowing how hard to push, I think that is the main reason so many people break. I tend to see the same cars breaking a lot and IMO a lot of it is driver trying to push to hard. The courses should be as long as possible and have doable rock sections included, and they will have to be lap style races which makes for good spectating. I do agree with yall on the safety equipment, there is a fine line between too much and not enough. I think having doable courses helps when there are less safety requirments, the harder the course the more chances for error.

 

[tonyt]

i see what your saying Tony , if you throw in very difficult obstacles in the middle of a go fast race your going to get carnage. it is offroad though so you dont want the course to be a dirt track either. I believe a longer course that is "too easy" would be more fun than a short course full of rough stuff where you are forced to winch or risk breaking. you gotta remember though, the ECORS guys have a good standing of stock class competitors... that says a lot about rigs holding up to this kind of race

shoot, I bet racing A or even B class in ECORS is FUN!



but its a little hard to compare them holding up, versus what the C or "unlimited" class does. A+B cars are not running the same course as the C class. at least not at harlan.

not sure about their other races.




it really isn't about the courses being impossible. its about the fact that you are racing for 70-80miles in most cases at speed. just alot of opportunity for stuff to go wrong. harder you make the course, those chances are multiplied exponentially.


if you want to attract spectators $$, it definitely has to be a lap race.

 

[Bubba1]

I like the ideal of having one hill and racing to the top . Then spectators can watch everthing