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GAP - Dirt Riot Race Round 1 - February 23, 2013

That sounds wrong to me too, i distinctly heard during the drivers meeting that absolutely NO outside help was allowed.

We had controversy during our race too.......shouldn't there be some kind of time penalty if not an outright DQ for short coursing multiple laps?
 
Neal 3000 before you guys left I talked with Kevin, who by the the way is a great driver and the first impression I have is he has a good head on his shoulders, I admitted to him, that I unknowingly short coursed that section the first 3 laps on the 4th lap when you guys caught up I let you pass, and I noticed what I had done I went the correct way for laps 4,5,6,7. Looking at my lap times it was about a 2 minute advantage, Rich gave you guys 3 mins on each of those laps I short coursed. It was a bummer you guys blew a tire on the first lap, my pit crew radio me the news, so I slowed my pace down after that, its a long race and anything can happen. Something I didnt like was stalling me on the first lap in a place on the track were I couldn't pass so you could catch up to co drive, or maybe it really was just mechanical issues with Kevin's buggy, I had know idea ya'll had plans to dish your buggy and co drive with him. I suggest in the future if you have issues resolve them before you take off because I honestly thought me and Kevin were in agreeance before he left. This was my first Dirt Riot race, I'm out there to have a good time, that's why I ran the modified trail class, if you think the right thing to do is DQ me, then I will send the money and trophy to Kevin. Looking forward to running against you guys at Grey Rock. Thanks again to the entire Dirt Riot Crew and racers for putting on a great event.
 
no man i'm not trying to say anything bad about you or that anything should be changed as far as placing for the race goes and i don't hold anything against you and i know Kevin doesn't either, you seem like a good guy- you did it by accident and then started doing it right after you saw us and you admited it AND offered to Kevin to concede if he wanted you to, that makes you a very decent person imo and look forward to racing against you in the future hopefully.

i do believe that there should be a rule that penalizes for that in someway, not just the time difference. hell i mean it would be a good strategy to take the stock class dirt road and i'd take the time difference penalty all day long to avoid going down those big rocks and through that muddy rock filled ditch you get what i'm saying?

there was no intentional delay for me to get in with him, the plan was for me to jump in wherever i could when he came out of the rock filled ditch...... i'm not sure what your refering to there
 
The first lap he was either stalled out or stopped in the the stream before the first hill after the tires which offered no way around, waited went on he did it again at the next hill, then I went around, you were still running to catch up, literally running. I've got shocking video evidence from my prerun that shows who is truly to blame, for me taking the wrong route will upload shortly. I get your point on a stronger penalty.
Ok they were just blocking the correct path during my prerun.
http://youtu.be/E2wfFaOMcvA
 
Those were real engine issues from him hitting the first water hole too fast and killing the engine......the plan was for me to run up to the bottom of the hill and jump in when he came out of the rocky ditch, you might have seen me waiting for him there when you came by we had hoped that he would still be 30 seconds ahead of you at that point and i would strap in on the move
 
Todd, thanks for the props. You're a great driver as well. Looking forward to Grey Rock.

At the start of the race, I hit that huge water crossing way to fast (adrenaline). Flooded out my engine with water, hence the huge ball of white smoke. It stalled out twice because of that. I had issues the whole race with water crossings and mud puddles. I never even thought about the placement of my filter being an issue. Then right after that I popped the tire. Figured that pretty much killed my race. The plans for Neal to co-drive was for him to ditch his rig so he could at least be counted as racing, then get in either at the end of the rock section or on the next lap. Just so happened I popped the tire - thats what allowed him to get in.

I told you after the race that I was ok with the decision we came to. I truly believe what you did was unintentional. But Neal also has a point. I would rather take the small penalty to short course in order to eliminate the risk of breaking my rig and cut my lap times. As it is right now, a few minutes per lap was a small price for you to pay.

Stiffer penalties going forward should be in place to discourage those type of infractions, intentional or not. Thats all we are trying to say. Some people may not be so honest. I appreciate you owning up to it. That shows great sportsman ship.

Good luck and hope to see you at Grey Rock.
 
Looks to me BIG Should man up and do the right thing and hold to the rules he himself stayed at the drivers meeting that all drivers were in attendance at
 
On Todd's taking the wrong line. I can not just make it up as we go. That is why there is a protest process in place.
I asked if you guys wanted to protest and have you the time splits and differences in the laps and completion times. A competition review board of other drivers may have DQ'd or given a time penalty, but it was your decision not mine to make.
How can I have a set rule like a time penalty for a situation like this ? Should I just say 30 minutes for each lap when the difference was less tang 3 minutes or should it be measure by distance and than a minute put to each foot?
No clue on what's right so again that's why we have te CRB and protest procedure

As for the Jeff and Bobby thing - My decision was over turned - period - I states my case to the CRB and they choice to make the change - do I feel I was right, Yea I do..... but the process was taken out of my hands in this instant.
New procedures and rules will be coming out this week so ALL teams will better understand the rules before the race.
I feel that Jeff knew what was right before asking for the tow, but again it was taken out of my hands.

Bobby was or was not your axle tube split as it shows in photos being posted, could you really have proceeded with the race?

Bobby, again a ruling was not made against you but against my call and the drivers on the CRB made a decession that effected you - I'm sorry that the process failed you... The new process will not allow that to happen again.
 
Big i understand the process that u had in place.... but why if bobby was to lose a position and points on a call u made not involed in the process of the judge/jury of your peers.........

If bobby followed the rules he should not be penalized for the wording in which u clearly stated for all to hear in the meeting

Feels pretty shitty after all the effort to get back to camp under our own power for 2 miles with no left front tire
 
Sounds like Big followed werock rules to the letter, before the protest was filed he said #12 was dq'd, and then they protested and he had to turn it over to the review board per the rules in place it was in their hands and out of his.

I'm guessing in the future this sort of thing ( such a clear cut case of a broken rule) won't be allowed to go to review?

As far as the short coursing penalty, you might poll all the drivers in dirt riot and see what they think?

There's controversy in every race and i think the Kleins handled it as well as could be expected with the rules they have in place.

i want to say also that it was a very well organized and professional managed race and fun atmosphere around them, great folks! Also the guy who laid out the course did an amazing job, it would have been killer if dry and was still fun as hell!
 
Rich Kudo's to you and how things were ran! It's refreshing to see how you worked with us, gained our input and feedback to improve things and involved racers when a challenge was made. My perception is you take the attitude that the racers make a series and not the other way around! Due to the rain I don't think turnout was as good as it could of been! I think the "sissy's" stayed at home! LOL! I bet the next race will be a better turn out!

Oh and my apologize I don't think I ever offered you any of the home brew the wife makes. I'll make sure I do next time! :drinkers:

----------------------------

Bobby I was one of the 3 racers on the CRB along with another racer whose name escapes me right now and Roger King as you know since he came and talked to you as you were about to leave. The CRB was aware of what the placing changes would be before we started the process however we had no input or say in them or having them changed. I don't disagree with you on the statement both you and Jeff from Allsouth should have been given 2nd place. That wasn't are call though. We were to decide if under the circumstances what the racer did was warrant of a DQ or not. The Ultra 4 rules I reviewed are pretty black and white and it was stated at the driver meeting it was a no chase race. The racer was not recovered by his own crew. Complexity and gray area was introduced pertaining to the radio communication that took place. This communication lead the recovery team to believe not only pulling him off the track was OK but back to the pits was also OK. The CRB's impression was the radio miscommunication was the root cause of the misunderstanding and lead to the outcome. The recovery crew seeming to have an authoritative answer and also being the authoritative body at the scene of the issue acted accordingly. If the racer would of been advised differently he could have fixed his issue right there at the scene since it was any easy fix that took minimal hand tools to do so.

I don't think anyone involved acted out of ill will, lack of integrity or without honor. Bobby It does suck it forced you into a 3rd place position though! There should be some way for a racer impacted by another challenge to attest or challenge it further. If anything can be learned from this chain of events is how to improve things moving forward. Some of this was discussed after the CRB decision was delivered. I'm have faith that Big Rich will improve the processes and make it better especially since it sounded as if this was the first time a challenge was placed and CRB was utilized. My personal impression as stated above is Big Rich actively engages in gaining feedback, listening to our input and taking it into consideration as changes are made to better the experience for all racers involved.
 
Looking back I should have pre run again Saturday morning, we should have probably ran with the 4400 guys like Rich had originally planned since the stock trail guys didn't have to run that section, there would have probably been a better chance I would have caught my mistake sooner. Maybe in my case if there was a way that track officials or other drivers could have notified me or drivers notified the track officials what I was doing I could have stopped doing it sooner, again it's probably not there responsibility though, as soon as I saw Kevin going the other way I corrected myself, I owned up to my mistake and trust me you don't want to win like this, I've been dubbed the short courser.... I agree completely that it was a small price to pay, that was a nasty section and anything could have happened in there in the first 3 laps I short coursed. I realize Kevin that your allready fast lap times would have been faster, if you had got to leave that section out. I know it is the drivers responsibility to know the course, I will make sure for the next race that I prerun the course with drivers in my class, coming from the werock world I was spoiled when your spotter could ask one of the many judges on the course if this was the correct route.
 
when i came in to fix my buggy i was told jeff was dq . i came to u and ask u. you told me and jason's crew he was dq so there was no need in trying to fix it. thats what realy pissed me off u said it, there was no he said or she said bs. my guy could have fixed it and been out be for he left the pits
BS on this statment "Bobby was or was not your axle tube split as it shows in photos being posted, could you really have proceeded with the race?"
I went off what you told me, he was DQ'd. You can take a chain and wrap through the knuckles and put a jack in between the axel housing and the chain and jack it back in place and then weld it up, and put my tire on, and I could be ready to race. It might have taken 30 mins for that fix. Looking at his lap time and my lap time, we would have went out at the same time. "And I hate the would if game"
 
I'm usually not on the forums and nor do I have a facebook; I guess I'm strange like that. However since I was called out in this thread I wanted to post up the situation from my point of view....

We had a steering fitting bend and come loose after hitting the tires a little to hard. We stopped my co-driver got out to fix the issue which would simply be resolved with a crescent wrench and steering fluid that we had on the rig to do so. The property owner, John, wanted to pull us off the track before we finished fixing for safety. Since we were so close the pits he asked Big Rich over the radio if it was within the rules to pull us back to the pits. After receiving the answer from Rich the recovery crew continued to tow us back. I would like to note the recovery/tow crew that did all this wasn't a "chase truck" of mine nor none of my group. I'm not sure exactly who they were but i believe they were a recovery crew appointed by the property owner or a racer in another class. We actually lost more time being towed back then it would taken us to fix on the side of the track. We got back on the track and Rich came over the intercom saying we were back in the race then once we completed a lap he red flagged us and told us we were DQ 'ed. While still in my buggy at the finish line I tried talking to him about a different solution, such as not counting our first lap/time penalty/etc., bc i felt being DQ 'ed by the race promoter for doing something he told us we could do was unfair to me. Not to mention that the rules state that the promoter has the option to change the rules at will. Ultimately he said we were DQ 'ed and we pulled off the track.

After discussing the situation with my group and talking again with the property owner about the exact words said over the radio I decided to protest the fact of me being DQ 'ed for doing something the race promoter said we could. The WErock due process for this is to select three drivers at random and hold a mini trial with the three drivers being the jury. After hearing my side, Big Rich's, and the properties owner they decided it was unfair for me to be DQ 'ed. Myself nor the three drivers (who i wont mention their names out of respect for them) had nothing to do with the decision to move me to second that was the fix Big Rich chose if the three drivers choose me being DQ 'ed was unfair. I would have preferred to continue racing for the full two hours or even the initial three for that matter.

Ultimately I don't want this situation to look bad on any of the parties involved or drivers. I have a lot of respect for the drivers racing with me and willing to put the cars through those conditions. As well the property owner John is such a great guy with an awesome park I've always had a good experience at GAP. Finally I'm excited to have raced a WErock event and plan to continue racing with them. The series is a class act and I'm happy they're in the southeast. This situation seems to be a misunderstanding and think we can all learn from this.
 

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